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Subject: RE: [ubl-csc] [Fwd: [ubl-dev] UDEF applied to CCTS - a Proposal for Alignment]
Jon, UDEF - although an intelligent identifier in that you can derive semantic meaning from it - is really a much lower level construct than CCTS. UDEF, as really nothing more than a UID for registry contents, is really just like a dewey decimal library catalog system. Yes you can decipher what the general concept of a particular artifact are based on the UDEF identifier, but that identifier does not describe to you how the contents fit together to make a larger whole. CCTS, on the other hand, with its basis in 11179 and object approach, provides a building block construct with ever increasing levels of aggregation that fully identify associations. So it is really an apples and oranges comparison. At last weeks Intelligence Community Metadata WG, I made the case that 1) CCTS is really an instantiation of ISO 11179 - just as OASIS standards are instantiations of W3C specifications and 2) the ebXML registry with its robust information model and associations capabilities coupled with CCTS and its modeling/storage/metadata/associations specifications comprise the semantic content management features of ebXML (See attached and feel free to share). I would hope that EIDX is given the opportunity to appreciate the real differences between the low level UDEF construct and the much more robust CC methodology. Mark ________________________________ From: jon.bosak@sun.com [mailto:jon.bosak@sun.com] Sent: Thu 2/12/2004 1:46 PM To: ubl-csc@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: Re: [ubl-csc] [Fwd: [ubl-dev] UDEF applied to CCTS - a Proposal for Alignment] There will be a session at next week's EIDX meeting in which Garret Minakawa will give an overview of CC and then Ron Schuldt will compare/contrast with UDEF. Should be interesting. Jon Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:51:58 -0500 From: "CRAWFORD, Mark" <MCRAWFORD@lmi.org> Cc: <ubl-csc@lists.oasis-open.org> Concur with Tim. UDEF creates a unique numeric expression for each element - as opposed to a generic UID assigned by the registry. I don't believe anyone has successfully provided the business case for being able to decompose the UDEF number into its semantic expression since the registry UID will always point to the semantic expression with much greater meta information available. As far as them working with CCTS, I am afraid that is not the case. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim McGrath [mailto:tmcgrath@portcomm.com.au] > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 7:33 PM > To: anne.hendry@sun.com > Cc: ubl-csc@lists.oasis-open.org > Subject: Re: [ubl-csc] [Fwd: [ubl-dev] UDEF applied to CCTS - > a Proposal > for Alignment] > > > We did have a presentation on UDEF and we investigated it quite > thoroughly about 18 months ago. > > our general feeling is that it duplicated the CCTS work > (using a numeric > code rather than ISO 11179) and was based on all things being > hierarchical taxonomies (which we don't think they are). > > i am pleased to see they are now working with CCTS but i am not sure > what that really means - we only need one of these things. > > i think that the Aerospace vocabulary (maybe even an > ontology!) would be > useful to UBL but they seem to have built their own NDRs so > what do they > want to align? > > Anne Hendry wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Here is a recent proposal sent to ubl-dev. I think I > recall a while > > back a discussion on UDEF, but I don't recall the outcome. > They seem > > to be working on defining a common set of semantic definitions for > > attributes of data elements used in business contexts, based on ISO > > 11179 and ebXML core components naming conventions. The issue of > > semantic equivalency was raised recently in a clsc > discussion on code > > list requirments, and there seems to be some overlap with the tbg17 > > controlled vocabulary work, although definitions differ. Is UDEF > > something we want to (or are) looking into? > > > > Thanks, > > Anne > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: [ubl-dev] UDEF applied to CCTS - a Proposal for Alignment > > Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 06:27:26 -0500 > > From: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com> > > Reply-To: <john@sanghainteractive.com> > > To: <ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org>, "CRAWFORD, Mark" > <MCRAWFORD@lmi.org> > > CC: <dnickull@adobe.com>, <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>, > > <kenneth.sall@gsa.gov>, <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>, > > <udef.builders@topica.com>, <ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com>, > > <dconnelly@openapplications.org>, <mrowell@openapplications.org>, > > <jdurand@fsw.fujitsu.com>, <david@drrw.info>, <psnack@aiag.org> > > > > > > > > Hello Mr. Crawford, and all on the ubl-dev group. > > I have been discussing with Duane Nickull and many others the > > similarity between the Core Components work, and the UDEF > (universal > > data element framework) that has come out of the Aerospace > industry, > > and is now getting traction among a number of standards, eBusiness > > formats and industry associations. > > Duane's suggestion was that I initiate contact with the groups that > > are related to CCTS, and make a proposal to work together. His > > reasoning for this was that the two efforts are very > closely aligned. > > We have been working diligently to create a non-intrusive, easily > > included approach for eBusiness formats to provide within > their specs > > (perhaps Schema, RDF or other formats). It's based on ISO 11179 and > > utilizes alphanumeric identifiers (eg - d.t.2_6 is equivalent to > > purchase.order.document_date). The overall concept: primary Object > > words (eg Document, Entity, Person, Product) and Property words (eg > > Date, Amount, Identifier) are augmented in tree form with > qualifiers > > (Order.Document) and combined together > (Purchase.Order.Document_Date). > > Each of these has an alpha or numeric signifier, which is used to > > create the actual ID for inclusion in the eBusiness formats: d.t.2_6 > > > > The UDEF was originated by Ron Schuldt, currently at > Lockheed Martin, > > to solve the integration problem of semantic equivalency. This is > > intended to provide a large scale solution that all can adopt, and > > could work very well as a potential solution to the UID as > proposed in > > the CCTS work. > > > > Our outreach efforts have generated a number of active participants > > (and good group of persons staying informed) in Aerospace, > Automotive, > > Transportation, and many leaders in eBusiness standards worlds. I'm > > sure that most participants here would be enthusiastic > about aligning > > efforts with the CCTS work. There are significant peices of > work under > > way, for example: > > > > - the UDEF trees have been converted to XML format It can > be found in > > PPT format for readability at > http://www.udef.org/education.html under > > the UDEF 101 file download or > http://www.udef.org/specdoc.html under > > the Master Trees link > > > > - a global UDEF hosting/resolver architecture effort is about to > > begin. A multinational .org is being finalized as the > hosting agency, > > and proposals are being submitted for the design / build phase. Use > > Case details can be viewed at > http://www.udef.org/specdoc.html under > > the link Use Cases. > > There is detailed information available at the website referenced > > above, and there is a white paper that I have authored at > > http://www.sanghainteractive.com/whitepapers.html. There is a very > > active udef.builders list where we are planning and discussing at: > > Archive - > > http://www.topica.com/lists/udef.builders/read > > > > Subscribe - send mail to udef.builders-subscribe@topica.com > > > > Please respond to my address and udef.builders@topica.com with > > comments as to interest / applicability. > > Best regards, and thank you for your time. > > John > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > john c hardin > > chief architect, ebXML - General Motors > > 313.667.4849 > > > > director / founder - sangha interactive > > 313.737.1197 cell > > 877.572.5691 > > john@sanghainteractive.com > > http://www.sanghainteractive.com > > http://www.udef.org > > http://www.topica.com/lists/udef.builders/read/ > > http://www.geocities.com/johnchardin/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from > the roster > > of the OASIS TC), go to > > > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ubl-csc/members/l eave_workgroup.php. > > -- regards tim mcgrath phone: +618 93352228 postal: po box 1289 fremantle western australia 6160 To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster of the OASIS TC), go to http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ubl-csc/members/leave_workgroup.php. To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster of the OASIS TC), go to http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ubl-csc/members/leave_workgroup.php. To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster of the OASIS TC), go to http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ubl-csc/members/leave_workgroup.php.
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