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Subject: Re: [ubl-ndrsc] Minutes for 28 August 2002 UBL NDR SC meeting
Mavis-- Thanks for doing such a great job on NDR stuff this week! Some questions and comments below: Mavis Cournane wrote: > 1. Roll call (quorum is 8) > > * Bill Burcham YES > * Mavis Cournane YES > * Mark Crawford YES y:10 > * Fabrice Desré no > * Matt Gertner no > * Arofan Gregory YES > * Jessica Glace YES x:50 > * Michael Grimley YES > * Eduardo Gutentag YES > * Eve Maler no > * Sue Probert YES > * Lisa Seaburg YES > * Gunther Stuhec no > * Paul Thorpe YES > * Kris Ketels no > > Quorum acheived (x:15) > > > > 2. Acceptance of minutes of previous meeting > > 21 August 2002 > http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-ndrsc/200208/msg00032.html > > Minutes accepted > > 3. Adoption of agenda/schedule planning > > August 28: > - Regrets from Eve > - Regrets Fabrice > - NDR document review > September 4: > - Regrets from Paul Thorpe > September 11: > - Regrets from Paul Thorpe, possibly from folks in Geneva > - NDR document review > September 18: > - Regrets from Gunther Stuhec > - Approve documents for review distribution #3 > September 25: > - No meeting; work on other UBL tasks instead > October 1-4: > - F2F #5 in Burlington, MA, USA > > A NDR document improvements (review every two weeks) > A+ Embedded documentation NEARLY DONE > A Code lists IN PROGRESS > A Dates and times IN PROGRESS > A Nested supplementary components IN PROGRESS > A Identifier references and whether to pass content by reference > A- Local vs. global elements > B+ Containership IN PROGRESS It looks like this has become an A+. :-) > B Updating guiding principles > B Modnamver URN/schema location > B Referencing of content, e.g. for attachments > C Facets > C Wildcards/open content > C Nillability > C Aggregation of similar information for XPath V1.0 addressing > > 4. Action item review > > Lisa: > - Send out the normalization paper. DONE > - NEW: Ask Tim to fix the Identifier->ID spreadsheet formula bug. 80% DONE > - NEW: Check whether we have an inappropriate rule on treating > RTs as reserved. DONE (none found) > > Arofan: > - Update the embedded documentation paper according to August 7 > decisions. DONE Cool! Has this been sent out? > Mavis: > - Update the issues spreadsheet with Eve's comments. > - Amend NDR document to add example code for Period. DONE > - Update NDR draft 15 with comments from our August 14 comments. > DONE > - Update issues spreadsheet to contain externally received NDR > comments. DONE > > Eve: > - Finish draft of code list document. IN PROGRESS I'm considering this DONE, though I'll probably do small updates over time. (We do have a few outstanding issues in there.) > - See if Mavis might be available for August 28 call. DONE > - NEW: Raise awareness of the containership issue to the CSC. This is DONE. > Gunther: > - Write content referencing paper. IN PROGRESS > - Send date/time NDR snippets to Mavis. IN PROGRESS > - With Arofan, prepare samples of how to handle second-tier > attributes. IN PROGRESS > - Bring the donkey to Burlington! > > Bill: > - Update modnamver paper by September 11. > - Start an email thread proposing a schema location solution. > - NEW: Start a thread on RTs in aggregates and possible NDR > document bugs in this area. In talking with Bill about this a couple of days ago, I got the impression he was happy with the NDR wording and didn't find any bugs. So this may be CANCELED. > 5. Other SC reports > > Lisa Seaburg reported that the LCSC discussed the distribution and are awaiting > comments on it. > Matt is no longer the chair of CM. > > 6. Chairs SC issues > > A. How to put the containerize rule to the UBL comments list. (Arofan to > explain) > B. Joint meetings between NDR and LCSC. > > THe Chairs SC met on Mon August 2th. The issue was raised regarding 3 differing > opinions on containership. It became clear Gunther's OO, Tims view of > methodology and Arofan's containership are in conflict. To help resolve the > issues there will be common calls for the LCSC and NDRSC next week. Mavis will > receive call details for the joint LCSC call on Tues from Lisa and advise NDR > participants. Jon Bosak suggested that NDR propose a containership rule on the > UBL-Comment List for discussion. NDR will spend time on wording this rule today > and put it into a form for public review. In terms of the joint call next Tues > with LCSC Arofan can make it, Michael cannot, Bill won't make it, Eduardo will > try, Lisa will make it, Sue probably not, Paul won't and Mavis will try. I can make at least the first hour. > The NDR SC worked on the wording of the Containership proposal and puts forward > the following: > > The NDR SC advocates the use of containers for the following reasons: > > * having the flexibility to extend content models using XSD > * for efficient use of existing XML tools and technologies (e.g. XPath etc.) > * general issues of clarity and usability > > > The NDR SC wishes to put forth the following rule for containership for > feedback from participants on the ubl-comment list. This proposal merely > touches on part of the wider containership issue. Please note that this > diverges from the modelling in the current distribution OP65. > > A group of like elements constitutes a model element in its own right. The type > of the containing element has a relationship to the type of the contained > element. The name of the container Type uses the type name of the contained > element and adds the word "List". > > Here is an example of the proposed model: > > The Order object class has a property called LineItemList. LineItemList is an > instance of the object class called LineItemList. A LineItemList contains one > or more instances of object class LineItem. > > The dictionary entry name for this property LineItemList is > Order.LineItemList.LineItemList. This assumes that we are no longer using "Details" in the position of a representation term, but instead the type of the property. I agree with this idea in principle, but did this get discussed as a separate item and agreed to? Conflating the type-as-RT issue with containership of series of like items -- especially since 0pt65 emphatically doesn't follow this type-as-RT rule -- may be very confusing to reviewers. > When the existing naming rules are applied the resultant XML element name > would be LineItemList. > > Consequently, you have the freedom to choose a property term that differs from > the representation term to accomodate elements that might be named as follows: > Dictionary Entry Name = Order.Accepted.LineItemList with an XML element name of > AcceptedLineItemList. This isn't how our existing naming rules work (I thought). We assume in our rules that "Details" is the RT, and "Details" always gets dropped -- but if the RT is something else (at the aggregate level), we don't say whether it gets dropped. > Here are the XML instances for these two examples > > Example 1. > <LineItemList> > <LineItem...></LineItem...> > <LineItem...></LineItem...> > <LineItem...></LineItem...> > </LineItemList> > > Note that LineItemList is of type LineItemList. > > Example 2. > <AcceptedLineItemList> > <LineItem...></LineItem...> > <LineItem...></LineItem...> > <LineItem...></LineItem...> > </AcceptedLineItemList> > > Note that here also the type of AcceptedLineItemList is LineItemList. By the way, I couldn't see how Mike Grimley's correction differed from what you have here. > 7. NDR Draft 16 Review > Done > NDR Spreadsheet Review deferred. > > 8. Finish embedded documentation decisions > > deferred > 9. Adjourn > Y:50 Thanks, Eve -- Eve Maler +1 781 442 3190 Sun Microsystems cell +1 781 883 5917 XML Web Services / Industry Initiatives eve.maler @ sun.com
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