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Subject: Re: [ubl-ndrsc] Minutes February 12 2003


A few tweaks below:

Mavis Cournane wrote:
> Dear all
> attached are the minutes of NDR's call today. Please note action items and
> items to be done next week.
> 
> Regards
> Mavis
> ----------------------------
> The NDR SC met by phone on Wednesday, February 12 2003:
> Attached are the minutes
> 
> 1.  Roll Call and Welcome from the chair (Mavis), assignment of co-chair to
> take minutes.
> 
> Michael Grimley
> Fabrice Desre (AWOL)
> Kris Ketels (AWOL)
> Gunther Stuhec (AWOL)
> Jessica Glace
> Ann Hendry
> Eve Maler (y:30)
> Paul Thorpe
> Mavis Cournane
> Jim Wilson (regrets)
> Mark Crawford
> Bill Burcham
> Sue Probert
> Eduardo Gutentag
> Jon Bosak
> Matt Gertner (y:02)
> Lisa Seaburg
> 
> Quorum was reached at x:10.
> 
>     (a) new members
> 2 new members have joined NDR. Jim Wilson from CIDX and Dan Vint from ACORD.
> Both are welcomed in their absence by the chair.
> 
>     (b) quorum review
> The chair has an action to mail Kris Ketels asking him in the interests of
> acheiving quorum to step aside as a voting member of NDR for now.
> His participation has been infrequent. However, this will not effect his
> standing as a voting member of the TC.
> 
> 2.  Acceptance of minutes from F2F meetings.
> Minutes accepted
> 
> 3.  Adoption of agenda/schedule planning
> Adopted
> 
> 
> 4. Discussion of the proposed NDR UBL 1.0 release schedule (Mavis)
> 
>  Timing
> - we will seek UBL TC approval for the adoption of UBL NDR 1.0 as a proposed
> specification going forward to OASIS.
> - March 1 all NDR sections must be with Mark for editing
> - April 2 the first draft version of NDR 1.0 will be put out by Mark for NDR
> QA and review.
> - April 24 is the deadline for NDR 1.0 to be approved by the NDR SC for
> submission to the UBL TC
> - April 25 either Jon or Mark (if Jon is unavailable) will submit NDR 1.0 to
> the UBL TC to approve NDR 1.0 going forward to OASIS as a proposed spec.
> - 5 days April 25- April 30 for UBL TC to deliberate
> 
> This schedule was put to a vote and was unanimously adopted.
> 
>  Content of release Package
> 
> - UBL NDR document
> - Auxiliary documents
>  CM Guidelines
>  Code List Rules document
> Any other discussion documents will be pointed to and not included in the
> package
> 
> Code Lists
> 
> 
> Eve suggested it would be good if we had a beta test of our rules against
> that of a real code list from a code list reproducer.
> Previously, she gave a talk to UN/ECE where our code list position paper was
> well received. This group also provided us with useful feedback
> on our document. UN/ECE currently reproduce country code and currency code
> code lists. Eve did a mock up example of NDR's code list rules as they would
> apply to these two code lists.

I didn't give a talk, but I was in contact with them in the fall of last 
year.  They had reviewed our new (at the time) code list rules, had 
tried them out, and had sent comments on them and on the corresponding 
code list module template XSD file.  I conveyed their comments in this 
message:

   http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-ndrsc/200209/msg00049.html

Our code list module template is sort of based on the ISO 3166 country 
codes (which UN/ECE republishes), but it doesn't pretend to be a 
complete example; it has a "..." for most of the actual codes.

> Action items:
> It would be very useful if we could talk to UN/ECE about the adoption our
> rules in the republication of their code lists.
> Mark will see if a resource is available to be the front lead on this to
> UN/ECE
> Arofan and Lisa will update Eve's sample country code and currency code
> lists and provide technical assistance required for the testing.

I think what would be most productive is to start with the UN/ECE code 
list schema modules and try to work with them to get them into 
compliance (but notice that we need to modify our own rules to get them, 
in turn, into CCTS 1.90 compliance first!).  But if the UN/ECE folks 
aren't interested or don't have time right now, then I think it's fair 
to mock up "country code" and "currency code" modules based on theirs, 
but eliding or perhaps faking most of the real content.

> Jon will talk to Rosetta Net as code list producers with a code list problem
> and see if our proposed solution demonstrated in Eve's two examples would
> work for them. He will put these samples on our website for them to have a
> look at when they are ready.
> 
> There was a discussion on enumeration as per our code list proposal. This
> works largely for fairly static code lists. David Webber rightly points out
> that for very dynamic codelists like HL7 XML schema is not very useful as is
> the case with static ones.
> Jessica's group have also difficulties accepting the enumerated list part of
> our proposal.
> Arofan suggested that we should bring Tony Coates from TC154 who wrote Best
> Practice on Enumeration more in to our loop.

To be clear, our rules do not mandate or even recommend enumeration. 
The amount and type of constraints put on the code values is entirely up 
to the code list producer.

> At the F2F just gone by Gunther suggested that their code be a namespace
> problem within codelists. Eve rejects this as she does not see a way for
> namespaces to get out of hand within in the instance. In the schema they are
> handcrafted anyway.

Well, "reject" is pretty strong... :-)  What I suspect Gunther was 
worried about was huge numbers of namespace declarations in the instance 
(e.g., if there are codes of 70 different types in a single instance). 
But because we decided a long time ago to bind foreign code types to 
native UBL elements, I don't think the instance ever has to know about 
the foreign namespaces underlying the types bound to the elements.  Now, 
the *schema* will have to have a ton of namespaces declared, so maybe 
that's what Gunther was concerned about.

> 
> There was a discussion on the role of CM in the NDR release. We decided at
> the F2F that CM is a separate normative deliverable.
> 
> 
> 5. Review priorities and assignment of work items (Mavis/Lisa/Mark)
> 
> - Codelists, A Priority. Lisa will update the document pending outcome of
> the beta test. Lisa and Arofan will fix up Eve's two code list samples.
> - CM, A Priority. Will be worked on by the CM SC.
> - Local vs Global, A Priority. Will be moderated via email by Jim Wilson.
> Hopefully a documented decision will be in the NDR document within 2 weeks.
> - Versioning, A Priority. Bill will have finalized his thoughts and will
> have prepared a discussion for next week's call.
> - CCTs, A Priority. Gunther and Mavis will work on this section. Arofan is
> happy to review the 2 related schema modules - one on common leaf     types
> and the other on metadata types.
> - Documentation,  B Priority. Gunther to work on examples and Mavis will
> moderate the email discussion. This should be finalized within 2 weeks.
> 
> Note: The 2 schema modules will be packaged in the NDR 1.0 release and
> repackaged again in the next LCSC release.
> 
> 6. Context Methodology (Eduardo)
> Deferred until next week.
> 
> 
> 7. Embedded documentation (Gunther/Mavis)
> 
> Jon:  We decided that not everything that is in the current spreadsheet
> deserves to be in the schema documentation. The responsibility for deciding
> this is left to LCSC and the spreadsheet designers.
> Arofan: The contents of the spreadsheet alone would not suffice as
> documentation for implementation.
> Mavis: NDRs decision is on the format. Two proposals currently one on XHTML
> and one on Docbook. Docbook is proposed by Gunther for the extra
> non-spreadsheet information.
> 
> Action: Mavis to follow up with Gunther and get him to clarify his position
> by example in the Documentation thread on the NDR List.
> 
> 
> 8. UN/CEFACT ATG Generic Header Project (Arofan)
> Deferred
> 
> 9. Adjourn
> adjourned y:59
> ---------------------------
> Mavis Cournane
> Cognitran Ltd
> 
> 
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	Eve

-- 
Eve Maler                                        +1 781 442 3190
Sun Microsystems                            cell +1 781 354 9441
Web Technologies and Standards               eve.maler @ sun.com



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