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Subject: [ubl] Fwd: [ubl-ndrsc] Minutes for 21 November 2001 UBL NDR meeting

In today's Naming and Design Rules SC meeting, we reviewed our main output 
document and came close to a decision on basic markup naming 
methodology.  Don't forget that you can find the NDR SC portal at:


Happy Thanksgiving,


>Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 13:01:23 -0500
>From: "Eve L. Maler" <eve.maler@sun.com>
>Subject: [ubl-ndrsc] Minutes for 21 November 2001 UBL NDR meeting
>To: ubl-ndrsc@lists.oasis-open.org
>List-Archive: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-ndrsc>
>1. Roll call (quorum is 8):
>    Bill Burcham
>    Doug Bunting      YES
>    Dave Carlson
>    Mark Crawford     YES
>    John Dumay
>    Matt Gertner
>    Jack Gager
>    Arofan Gregory
>    Eduardo Gutentag  YES (left at x:46)
>    Eve Maler         YES
>    Dale McKay        YES
>    Sue Probert       YES (y:32)
>    Marion Royal
>    Gunther Stuhec    YES (left at y:47)
>    Mike Rawlins      YES (x:30)
>    Quorum not reached as of x:10; we proceeded informally.
>2. Acceptance of minutes of previous meetings:
>    7 November 2001 meeting:
>    http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-ndrsc/200111/msg00026.html
>    Deferred.
>    14 November 2001 meeting:
>    http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-ndrsc/200111/msg00068.html
>    Deferred.
>3. Adoption of agenda
>    Need to add action item review.
>    Adopted with this change.
>3a. Action item review:
>>    ACTION: Arofan to talk to Pam Samuelson about the legal
>>    implications of default values supplied out-of-band.
>>    ACTION: Arofan to create a new use case for instance constraint
>>    checking.
>>    ACTION: Arofan to write the position paper for this for next
>>    Wednesday, using a small but complete example of needing
>>    subtraction/selection and addition.
>>    ACTION: Dave to create [use case] HTML template for people to use.
>     Continued.
>4. Brief discussion of any additional use cases
>    Discussed ad hoc in the context of the next two agenda items.
>5. Review structure of latest draft of NDR document (led by Mark)
>    We discussed and gave editorial direction on the document, up through
>    Chapter 4.  We will try to finish the whole outline next time.
>    ACTION: Dale to revise 4.1, 4.2, and 4.3 to make them shorter and
>    provide a reference to the source whence the information came.
>    New terminology:
>    W3C XML Schema (XSD):
>    Long-form and short-form name of W3C's XML schema language.
>    ACTION: Mark to add new terminology to the glossary and add "W3C
>    XML Schema" and "XSD" to the Conventions section as well.
>    ACTION: Mark to revise the NDR document to reflect editorial
>    directions by next meeting, if possible.
>    Issue/ACTION/position list:
>    - Review and decide on remaining design principles. (Mark)
>    - We need to formalize the decision about schema language. (Eve)
>    - Relationship between UBL and UN/CEFACT constructs position. (Mark)
>    - TPA section. (Doug -- but not any time soon!)
>6. Discuss/decide markup naming position (led by Mark)
>    Arguments for option 1, highly structured tags:
>    - Better semantic clarity across disparate user groups (requires
>      good definitions as well as heavy application of the naming rule)
>    - Avoids accidental duplication of names for different concepts
>    - Creating new elements would require a more time-consuming naming
>      exercise
>    - The Library Content SC is already "renaming" xCBL wholesale in
>      their spreadsheet)
>    - More regular naming helps readers of the raw XML because they can
>      guess meanings through the patterns
>    Arguments for option 2, slightly structured tags:
>    - More intuitive and familiar naming (friendlier for business people)
>    - Shorter names in general
>    - Don't have to rename xCBL wholesale
>    - Sometimes difficult to apply the naming rules.
>    Issues:
>    - Is aliasing directly in the XML file an option?  We don't want to
>      just tell people to use substitution groups in their own ad hoc
>      customization layers.  But we need to think about aliasing for
>      L10N purposes too.
>    ACTION: Arofan/Sue/Lisa to provide the xCBL naming guidelines (and
>    all the other xCBL guidelines!).
>    ACTION: Dale to generate a use case where the actor is an implementor
>    and needs to create a message with alternate (aliased) tag naming.
>    Doug: Only tag naming semantics are covered.  We need to cover
>    attribute names and enumerated value names as well.
>    Dale: People read tags in two circumstances: In the context of their
>    business documents and situations, and searching repository to find
>    out what tags already exist.  We don't want people to make up their
>    own; harmonization will be impossible.
>    Gunther: We can rely on tools to help with locating the right
>    elements; option 1 is preferable.
>    Mike: If we go with option 1, there are some edge cases that make
>    applying the rules difficult; these need to be explained better.
>    Also, there need to be better rules on removing duplication within
>    a name.
>    We will assume that a decision to go with option 1 will be achievable
>    the next time we have quorum.
>    ACTION: Mark to update the position paper with our suggestions
>    (including email suggestions).
>7. Discuss/decide customization position (led by Arofan)
>    Deferred.
>8. Next steps
>    On the agenda for next time:
>    - Approve minutes from last three meetings
>    - Action item review
>    - The XSD decision
>    - Finish going through the outline and assign more champions
>    - Arofan's position paper
>    - Bill Burcham's position paper
>9. Adjourn
>    Adjourned at y:56.  Happy Thanksgiving to all the folks in the U.S.!
>    (And, what the heck, to everyone else too. :-)

Eve Maler                                    +1 781 442 3190
Sun Microsystems XML Technology Center   eve.maler @ sun.com

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