RE: [ubl] rewriting schemas

["CRAWFORD, Mark" <MCRAWFORD@lmi.org>]

Greetings,

Just a quick reminder - the UBL NDR is for creating UBL schema that are
published as OASIS standards.  Thus rules like no substitution groups
are for internal consumption.  The current debate in UBL is do we ensure
that customizers can use this feature - even if we don't; and if so, is
this feature considered conformant or non-conformant.  Remember that our
customization has three paths - customization from the UR schema that is
considered non-conformant because the customizer chooses not to follow
our customization guidelines, customization from the UBL schema that is
considered conformant because the customizer followes our customization
guidelines, and customization from the UBL schema that is non-conformant
because the customizer does not follow our guidelines.  Examples of the
first and third would currently be using substitution groups and
redefine.  

Mark

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Green [mailto:stephen_green@seventhproject.co.uk] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 11:25 AM
> To: ubl@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [ubl] rewriting schemas
> 
> Bryan
> 
> This is now scheduled for review (between now and September). 
> Not everyone has accepted the need to use this particular 
> means to provide versioning. However, for customisation the 
> rule does not strictly speaking apply and UBL's NDR was 
> designed on the principle that it would provide for this kind 
> of polymorphism with XSD derivation. It just happens that 
> when, in April, our ad hoc working group looked at how this 
> could work, the substitution group
> (non-abstract) methodology was the only
> means that could be demonstrated as valid.
> It works too for versioning but versioning is the main use 
> for which an agreement is still being sought. For 
> customization we do have an unfulfilled promise to outline a 
> working mechanism (due, if at all, by the end of
> October) but in the meantime the 'how' is left to the 
> customizing party, outside of UBL.
> 
> Admittedly there are other methods for
> customizing (at least one example already exists in 
> production) than to use just XSD derivation, imports and the 
> non-abstract substitution groups with elements. But I don't 
> see anything wrong with encouraging customizers to follow the 
> approach we've so far most thoroughly researched, proven and 
> most strongly recommended. Doing so would probably preserve 
> the most interoperability across the board, I think.
> It may be especially important when seeking to keep 
> customisations updated in line with minor versions (if the 
> same approach is used for these): as yet I haven't seen any 
> demonstration of any alternative approach working for 
> customisation of a minor version but I have demonstrated that 
> the above approach works with this.
> 
> All the best
> 
> Stephen Green
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bryan Rasmussen" <brs@itst.dk>
> To: "'Stephen Green'" <stephen_green@seventhproject.co.uk>
> Cc: <ubl@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 2:53 PM
> Subject: SV: [ubl] rewriting schemas
> 
> 
> > Hi Stephen,
> >
> > I think it would be reasonably useful. One thing though is 
> from the NDR
> >
> >
> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ubl/download.php/
13200/NDR-2005
> > -06-22.pdf
> >
> > 7.3 xsd:substitutionGroup 2046
> > The xsd:substitutionGroup feature enables a type definition 
> to identify
> > substitution 2047
> > elements in a group. Although a useful feature in document 
> centric XML
> > applications, 2048
> > this feature is not used by UBL. 2049
> > [GXS5] The xsd:substitutionGroup feature MUST NOT be used.
> >
> > I was under the impression that the current argument was 
> that we were
> going
> > to end up using either substitutionGroups or Redefines?
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> > Fra: Stephen Green [mailto:stephen_green@seventhproject.co.uk]
> > Sendt: 7. juli 2005 15:37
> > Til: ubl@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Emne: Re: [ubl] rewriting schemas
> >
> >
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > The examples of customization I posted
> > at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl/200506/bin00010.bin
> > were not using actual UBL 1.0 schemas.
> > I wonder if it would help to produce
> > a set of examples based on UBL 1.0.
> > Would this be valuable?
> >
> > All the best
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Bryan Rasmussen" <brs@itst.dk>
> > To: <ubl@lists.oasis-open.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 1:39 PM
> > Subject: SV: [ubl] rewriting schemas
> >
> >
> > > hmm, I guess this was the rule I was thinking of: [NMS3] 
> UBL namespaces
> > MUST
> > > only contain UBL developed schema modules.
> > >
> > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> > > Fra: Bryan Rasmussen
> > > Sendt: 7. juli 2005 14:20
> > > Til: 'ubl@lists.oasis-open.org'
> > > Emne: [ubl] rewriting schemas
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I can't find this in the UBL-NDR-1.0.1, although I seem 
> to remember that
> > it
> > > was there at one point, is there a rule specifically 
> against taking the
> > UBL
> > > schemas and rewriting one of the elements in there to 
> have a different
> > > cardinality, although still within the cardinality of the original
> schemas
> > > (as one example of a change that would not have any 
> meaningful effect on
> > > validation)?
> > >
> > >
> > > 
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