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Subject: RE: [ws-caf] Primer (was RE: [ws-caf] bug 135 - participating services list)


Peter, from memory this was discussed a few times, particularly at the very 
start of the lifetime of the TC and I think we agreed to revise those parts of 
the Primer as and when the relevant specification was finalised.

Mark.

>===== Original Message From "Furniss, Peter" <Peter.Furniss@choreology.com> 
=====
>Mark, Eric,
>
>You both mentioned revising the Primer as part of the solution on this.
>Is
>there a schedule for revising the Primer ? Is it going to be done
>piece-meal
>(i.e. revise the ws-context bits soon, the other parts later) or will it
>wait until the normative documents are all done ?
>
>Should we be reviewing the Primer's ws-context sections for discussion
>at
>the face-to-face ?
>
>Peter
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mark Little [mailto:Mark.Little@arjuna.com]
>> Sent: 30 June 2004 05:21
>> To: Furniss, Peter; Newcomer, Eric;
>> ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org; Mark Little
>> Subject: RE: [ws-caf] bug 135 - participating services list
>>
>>
>> Peter, I don't think being facetious will get you very far.
>> The email from
>> Eric was correct IMO. There are several companies within this
>> TC that are
>> actually interested in doing implementations of WS-Context
>> and WS-CAF in a
>> timely manner, IONA being one of them.
>>
>> My point (based on the back of Eric's email and apparently
>> entirely missed by
>> you) was that as Eric says, appropriate text can be added to
>> the current
>> specification and Primer.
>>
>> Now, we could spend years making sure we have a "perfect"
>> specification, but
>> meanwhile the real world moves on and things that live
>> entirely within
>> standardisation efforts become less relevant as a result.
>> There are many cases
>> in point for this, and you should be able to speak to this
>> from personal
>> experience too.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> >===== Original Message From "Furniss, Peter"
>> ><Peter.Furniss@choreology.com>
>> =====
>> ><irony>
>> >Let's fill it up with lots of optional fields that might be
>> useful to
>> >higher protocols if they choose to define the mechanisms to
>> make them
>> >functional. We could have user identifications, security fields,
>> >database strings (see the use-case/examples discussion from the
>> >beginning of the tc).
>> >
>> >They'll all be optional, so they won't represent a problem
>> to the spec.
>> ></irony>
>> >
>> >Putting in or leaving in random fields because they seemed
>> like a good
>> >idea at one time is no way to produce a good spec.
>> >
>> >If anyone thinks it should stay, let's see the "appropriate
>> text" that
>> >fully defines what participants MUST do so other services can find a
>> >list of participating services that actually includes the
>> participating
>> >services.  It was when I did that I became convinced it was
>> a mistake
>> >and neither the mechanism or the field belonged in the spec.
>> >
>> >And, in passing, "at this stage in ws-context" is first review of
>> >radically re-written and cleaned-up spec. It wasn't possible to
>> >consider the details of the fields of the context itself
>> until the als
>> >stuff had been sorted out.
>> >
>> >Peter
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Mark Little [mailto:Mark.Little@arjuna.com]
>> >> Sent: 29 June 2004 23:45
>> >> To: Furniss, Peter; Newcomer, Eric; ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org
>> >> Subject: RE: [ws-caf] bug 135 - participating services list
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> At this stage in WS-Context I have to agree. I don't see
>> the harm in
>> >> leaving in an optional element. We can add some
>> appropriate text to
>> >> the spec. to ensure that the field is documented, and
>> perhaps enhance
>> >> the primer.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> >===== Original Message From "Newcomer, Eric"
>> >> <Eric.Newcomer@iona.com>
>> >> >===== Peter,
>> >> >
>> >> >No, I disagree.  It can be easily defined, that is, as a
>> reference
>> >> >point for
>> >> other services to find the list of other participating
>> services.  It
>> >> is an optional element in any case and therefore does not
>> represent a
>> >> problem in the spec.
>> >> >
>> >> >Eric
>> >> >
>> >> >-----Original Message-----
>> >> >From: Furniss, Peter [mailto:Peter.Furniss@choreology.com]
>> >> >Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 12:56 PM
>> >> >To: ws-caf@lists.oasis-open.org
>> >> >Subject: [ws-caf] bug 135 - participating services list
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >I would like to formally propose, as a resolution of bug
>> >> 135, that the
>> >> participating-services-list element be removed from the WS-Context
>> >> document and schema.
>> >> >
>> >> >http://services.arjuna.com/wscaf-issues/show_bug.cgi?id=135
>> >> >
>> >> >As I think the discussion on this has shown, appreciable
>> additional
>> >> specification is required to make it work, and that specification
>> >> would want to constrain the general flexibility of ws-context. It
>> >> should therefore be considered as a candidate for a "referencing
>> >> specification", and not part of
>> >> the base ws-context.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Peter
>> >> >
>> >> >------------------------------------------
>> >> >Peter Furniss
>> >> >Chief Scientist, Choreology Ltd
>> >> >web: http://www.choreology.com <http://www.choreology.com/>
>> >> >email: peter.furniss@choreology.com
>> >> >phone: +44 870 739 0066
>> >> >mobile: +44 7951 536168
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>




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