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Subject: Re: Resend, clarification needed [[Re: test for WS-Calendar CSD]]
On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Toby Considine <Toby.Considine@gmail.com> wrote: > We know there are problems, that is why *this* is not going out for Public > Review. > We are placing a stake in the ground, to be pounded on by the mallets of > some of the energy standards groups. > > I have taken note of the deficiencies in the balloting process I ran, so I > can avoid them when we do release a Committee Draft that we wish to go out > for Public Review. Great. I don't see any significant problems at this time. I'll note the two schemas in the namespace document as being CD01, maybe CSD03 (TBD), and probably nobody will notice. The namespace document is just metadata that TC Admin maintains, so if I get it wrong, I can correct it to suit. ;-) So I agree: we publish the CSD02, and I'm sure the informal review and feedback will help make improvements toward CSD03 and PR. Thanks for your diligence to keep things tidy! - Robin > > > "If something is not worth doing, it`s not worth doing well" - Peter Drucker > > Toby Considine > TC9, Inc > TC Chair: oBIX & WS-Calendar > TC Editor: EMIX, EnergyInterop > U.S. National Inst. of Standards and Tech. Smart Grid Architecture Committee > > > Email: Toby.Considine@gmail.com > Phone: (919)619-2104 > http://www.tcnine.com/ > blog: www.NewDaedalus.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robin Cover [mailto:robin@oasis-open.org] > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 12:27 PM > To: Toby Considine > Cc: Robin Cover; ws-calendar@lists.oasis-open.org > Subject: RE: Resend, clarification needed [[Re: test for WS-Calendar CSD]] > >> stretch this out for another week is up to you > > Gak! I don't want to do that. The ambiguity is the kind that crops up very > frequently. I only wanted to flag it as the kind of issue that sometimes > goes unnoticed and unattended, and later becomes very costly to repair. > > My recommendation is to just publish the CSD as we have it, and in the next > spec rev, the TC can take up the ambiguity to resolve it formally. There is > no real mechanism in the rules for debate and decision at this time > (formally). I was looking for a hint because there are multiple creative > ways to handle ambiguity that's inherent at predictable junctures. > > Any objections to just moving forward with the above understanding that it > will get resolved later? > There's been no PR requested for CSD02, so you can easily handle this in the > CSD03 if that's next up. > > To repeat myself: > >> Hear me: this case is not a big deal. > > -Cheers, -rcc > > Robin Cover > Interim TC Administrator > OASIS, Director of Information Services > Editor, Cover Pages and XML Daily Newslink > Email: robin@oasis-open.org > Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover > Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/ > Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html > Tel: +1 972-296-1783 > > > On Wed, 16 Feb 2011, Toby Considine wrote: > >> 1) I acknowledge neither one was named in the roll call vote. >> 2) TimeStamp is a throw-away. We made it, we're done with it, in >> conversations it is assumed. The TC has not spent any bandwidth on it >> since the initial production. We were asked to do it by parts of the >> national smart grid process. It is not part of the service >> interactions we are defining elsewhere. You can delete it or publish >> it as you please. As I have stated repeatedly, it is a side issue. If >> you doubt that, you can ask the TC. >> 3) You as TC Admin may declare whatever you want. If you want to say >> that you want another roll call vote two weeks after first because you >> finally notice, that is your right. It will be my right to complain. >> 4) The components that are included in ws-calendar.xsd are all in >> iCalendar-wscal-extensions.xsd. If you think I am not representing the >> sense of the TC accurately, well, we can ask them. If you think it is >> useful to have non-consensus non-standard alternate schemas on the >> OASIS site in perpetuity, go for it. >> >> The relevant issue is, as *you* highlight, ** the constituent parts >> cannot advance independently of each other or stand on their own**. >> The ambiguity is that TimeStamp was not explicitly included in the >> zipped file that I sent. To be consistent and punctilious, you should >> include both or exclude both. Including both is clearly more harmful. >> Excluding both is a better fit with the process as outline below, but >> if that is the intent, I am not sure why you keep coming back to try to > include them. >> >> Whether you want to stretch this out for another week is up to you. I >> invite anyone on the TC who is feeling misused by my >> "misrepresentations" to chime in. >> >> tc >> >> "If something is not worth doing, it`s not worth doing well" - Peter >> Drucker >> >> Toby Considine >> TC9, Inc >> TC Chair: oBIX & WS-Calendar >> TC Editor: EMIX, EnergyInterop >> U.S. National Inst. of Standards and Tech. Smart Grid Architecture >> Committee >> >> >> Email: Toby.Considine@gmail.com >> Phone: (919)619-2104 >> http://www.tcnine.com/ >> blog: www.NewDaedalus.com >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robin Cover [mailto:robin@oasis-open.org] >> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 11:56 AM >> To: Toby.Considine@gmail.com >> Cc: Robin Cover >> Subject: Re: Resend, clarification needed [[Re: test for WS-Calendar >> CSD]] >> >> So there you have it: >> >>> Keep TimeStamp >>> Eliminate WSCalendar >> >> I'm not worried about being able to get reasonable control over this >> particular ambiguity, but maybe you can see why TC motions and ballots >> need to express precisely what the TC intends, at the time of the vote. >> >> Hear me: this case is not a big deal. But you can see how ambiguities >> left unattended could become serious problems. >> >> Since January 3, I have spent several **whole days** on this very problem: >> TCs that got to OS or CS, then started debate with TC Admin about what >> files are actually part of the Standard/Spec, and files that "should have > been" >> part of the public review(s). >> >> ============ But read on if you're interested about how the current >> rules impact this, as a matter of clarity. >> >> Neither schema named above is in the WD (-16) WS-Calendar that was > balloted. >> But you want me to take your word (in a private conversation) as to "yes" >> and "no." Note "single Work Product Ballot" below. >> >> Handbook: >> http://docs.oasis-open.org/TChandbook/Reference/WPQualityRequirements. >> html >> >> "The Work Product, even if multi-part, must have a single name and >> version number, and must be approved at each stage by a single Work > Product Ballot. >> **That is, the constituent parts cannot advance independently of each >> other or stand on their own**." >> >> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process-2010-07-28.php#quality-mu >> ltiPar >> t >> "Irrespective of the number and status of the constituent parts, the >> Work Product as a whole must be approved by a single Work Product Ballot. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Toby Considine >> <Toby.Considine@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> (1) TimeStamp is still part of the Schema - it is merely untouched >>> since the last PR >>> (2) I would agree that no schema from an approved Committee Spec ever >>> go away. Detritus from rough drafts is perhaps another matter. The >>> original ws-calendar.xsd is such detritus >>> >>> So: >>> >>> Keep TimeStamp >>> Eliminate WSCalendar >>> >>> For this *draft*. It is entirely possible that the iCalendar crowd >>> decided to disavow us and wscalendar comes back, but I am not >>> anticipating that at this time. >>> >>> tc >>> >>> "If something is not worth doing, it`s not worth doing well" - Peter >>> Drucker >>> >>> Toby Considine >>> TC9, Inc >>> TC Chair: oBIX & WS-Calendar >>> TC Editor: EMIX, EnergyInterop >>> U.S. National Inst. of Standards and Tech. Smart Grid Architecture >>> Committee >>> >>> >>> Email: Toby.Considine@gmail.com >>> Phone: (919)619-2104 >>> http://www.tcnine.com/ >>> blog: www.NewDaedalus.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robin Cover [mailto:robin@oasis-open.org] >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 9:50 AM >>> To: Toby.Considine@gmail.com >>> Cc: Robin Cover >>> Subject: Resend, clarification needed [[Re: test for WS-Calendar >>> CSD]] >>> >>> Sorry to bug you; need absolute clarity >>> >>> - The namespace document here needs to be updated: >>> >>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-calendar/ws-calendar/v1.0/CD01/WS-Calen >>> d >>> ar.htm >>> l >>> >>> - It references two schemas that I think are probably obsoleted, >>> but I'm not sure: >>> ws-calendar >>> timestamp.xsd >>> >>> - some TCs regard their successive CSD-level work as additive but >>> in any case, never "subtractive" - they want TC Admin to regard >>> artifacts as "unchanged but still part of the specification" if >>> nothing is said explicitly about the status of those artifacts >>> >>> - Thus: >>> >>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-calendar/ws-calendar/v1.0/CD01/xsd/ws-c >>> a >>> lendar >>> .xsd >>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-calendar/ws-calendar/v1.0/CD01/xsd/time >>> s >>> tamp.x >>> sd >>> >>> Are these two still part of the specification, or are they obsoleted >>> by the nine schemas. and thus no part of CSD02 >>> >>> 2839 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar-availability-extension.xsd >>> 2847 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar-bw-extensions.xsd >>> 2112 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar-link-extension.xsd >>> 1387 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar-ms-extensions.xsd >>> 13909 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar-params.xsd >>> 26625 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar-props.xsd >>> 4956 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar-valtypes.xsd >>> 4984 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar-wscal-extensions.xsd >>> 4711 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar.xsd >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Robin Cover <robin@oasis-open.org> > wrote: >>>> - Schemas I didn't send (just adding a copyright notice) >>>> >>>> - thanks for noticing about line numbers: I never use them, but >>>> I know some TCs like them >>>> >>>> - additional issue which came up as I was editing the >>>> Namespace document >>>> >>>> CD01 has two schemas "ws-calendar.xsd" and "timestamp.xsd" :: >>>> >>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-calendar/ws-calendar/v1.0/CD01/xsd/ws- >>>> c >>>> a >>>> lendar.xsd >>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-calendar/ws-calendar/v1.0/CD01/xsd/tim >>>> e >>>> s >>>> tamp.xsd >>>> >>>> Are these two still part of the specification, or are they obsoleted >>>> by the nine schemas: >>>> >>>> 2839 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar-availability-extension.xsd >>>> 2847 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar-bw-extensions.xsd >>>> 2112 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar-link-extension.xsd >>>> 1387 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar-ms-extensions.xsd >>>> 13909 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar-params.xsd >>>> 26625 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar-props.xsd >>>> 4956 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar-valtypes.xsd >>>> 4984 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar-wscal-extensions.xsd >>>> 4711 2011-02-01 19:43 iCalendar.xsd >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Toby Considine >>>> <Toby.Considine@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> Well >>>>> >>>>> No Schemas >>>>> >>>>> Line numbering vanished. I added them back to the doc (with my >>>>> intials (TC) on the end) and generated a PDF from that. HTML is not >>>>> affected. Zipped Doc and PDF and sending them back. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> tc >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "If something is not worth doing, it`s not worth doing well" - >>>>> Peter Drucker >>>>> >>>>> Toby Considine >>>>> TC9, Inc >>>>> TC Chair: oBIX & WS-Calendar >>>>> TC Editor: EMIX, EnergyInterop >>>>> U.S. National Inst. of Standards and Tech. Smart Grid Architecture >>>>> Committee >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Email: Toby.Considine@gmail.com >>>>> Phone: (919)619-2104 >>>>> http://www.tcnine.com/ >>>>> blog: www.NewDaedalus.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Robin Cover [mailto:robin@oasis-open.org] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 9:01 AM >>>>> To: Toby.Considine@gmail.com; toby.considine@unc.edu >>>>> Cc: robincover@gmail.com >>>>> Subject: test for WS-Calendar CSD >>>>> >>>>> Toby, could you UNzip the attached file and see if the three >>>>> formats look acceptable (about as expected), sufficient for upload as > the CSD02? >>>>> >>>>> I'm just now putting them on a UNIX machine for a bit more testing >>>>> than I can do on Windows, but if you think the doc/PDF/HTML looks >>>>> reasonable (with no atrocious errors introduced in the conversation >>>>> process), please let me know. At this point we are not making any >>>>> content edits, but I'd like to have confirmation that the >>>>> production >>> looks OK. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. - Robin >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Robin Cover >>>>> OASIS, Director of Information Services Editor, Cover Pages and XML >>>>> Daily Newslink >>>>> Email: robin@oasis-open.org >>>>> Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover >>>>> Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/ >>>>> Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html >>>>> Tel: +1 972-296-1783 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Robin Cover >>>> OASIS, Director of Information Services Editor, Cover Pages and XML >>>> Daily Newslink >>>> Email: robin@oasis-open.org >>>> Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover >>>> Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/ >>>> Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html >>>> Tel: +1 972-296-1783 >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Robin Cover >>> OASIS, Director of Information Services Editor, Cover Pages and XML >>> Daily Newslink >>> Email: robin@oasis-open.org >>> Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover >>> Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/ >>> Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html >>> Tel: +1 972-296-1783 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Robin Cover >> OASIS, Director of Information Services Editor, Cover Pages and XML >> Daily Newslink >> Email: robin@oasis-open.org >> Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover >> Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/ >> Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html >> Tel: +1 972-296-1783 >> >> > > -- Robin Cover OASIS, Director of Information Services Editor, Cover Pages and XML Daily Newslink Email: robin@oasis-open.org Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/ Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html Tel: +1 972-296-1783
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