RE: Stable/latest url for issue list

[Mary McRae <marypmcrae@gmail.com>]

Hi Marc,

  Just one thing - the official channel for uploading these files will be Sharon Nuccio - our webmaster. At least until the
self-serve solution is up and running. You can email Sharon at sharon.nuccio@oasis-open.org. Please cc me
(mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org) and Robin (robin@oasis-open.org) for the the first two or three uploads so we can ensure everything is
set up and working properly.

Thanks!

Mary 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marc Goodner [mailto:mgoodner@microsoft.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 11:27 AM
> To: Robin Cover
> Cc: ws-rx-editors@lists.oasis-open.org; Mary McRae; Jamie 
> Clark; Robin Cover
> Subject: RE: Stable/latest url for issue list
> 
> OK, so the idea of linking from docs.oasis to the Kavi files 
> won't work.
> Oh well, I should have figured or you would have suggested it.
> 
> I'm happy with going forward with -nnn numbering of the files 
> for the issue list at http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/issues/ 
> 
> I suggest we give it a dry run with the issue list update 
> after today's call. I'll post to Kavi and pass the files to 
> Robin as well. We can then make a recommendation at next 
> week's call to move to the new location.
> That would give the TC members something to review so they 
> can make an informed decision.
> 
> Does anyone here object or should we go ahead with this?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robin Cover [mailto:robin@oasis-open.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 7:05 PM
> To: Marc Goodner
> Cc: ws-rx-editors@lists.oasis-open.org; Mary McRae; Jamie 
> Clark; Robin Cover
> Subject: Re: Stable/latest url for issue list
> 
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Marc Goodner wrote:
> 
> > Hey guys.
> > Robin has graciously offered to help get a stable/latest 
> url for the 
> > issue list. In discussing this I realized there were some things I 
> > shouldn't unilaterally decide on my own on this.
> 
> Marc is referring to an informal/unofficial memo I sent on 
> 10/12 (copied to Jamie Clark [Staff Contact] and Mary McRae 
> ['Manager of the docs-DOT web server' at 
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/], after I noted a fourth TC 
> posting documenting the need for a stable/latest URL 
> corresponding to the WS-RX TC's issues list [1].
> 
> Because Kavi creates URIs containing (unpredictable) magic 
> numbers of the shape 
> /download.php/14939/MinutesWSRX-101305.htm, we can't support 
> (fixed/stable) "latest version" URIs, and we cannot exploit 
> aliasing via symbolic links:
> 
> * the magic number or key (e.g. 14939) is actually the only 
> relevant part
>   (albeit a crufty technology artifact that has no semantic value)
> * 'download.php' is just the PHP query code
> * the final portion (e.g., MinutesWSRX-101305.htm) is totally
>   superfluous/unnecessary --  you can substitute anything
>   silly in its place (veronicasSecret.png), or nothing at all
> 
> Some of us have little interest trying to build on this Kavi 
> model of file naming and document storage.  By contrast, the 
> repository at http://docs.oasis-open.org/ is based upon a 
> file system with filenames/URIs under our complete control.
> 
> In this context, we can also support the notion of "latest version"
> filename/URI by making use of a symlink, linked to each 
> (successive) version, as we have implemented for the XACML References:
> 
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/xacml/xacmlRefs.html  
> ['xacmlRefs.html' is a symlink] 
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/xacml/references/  [version-specific URIs,
>   latest in directory is the target of the symlink]
> 
> We can do the same for the WS-RX TC's issues list, e.g., with 
> the fixed URI matching your choice, as in [what Marc said]:
> 
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/issues/ReliableMessagingIssues.xml
> 
> > The location would be at http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx so we need
> to
> > make the call as to how it is linked to the latest file there.
> > Particularly as there are a number of supporting files like 
> the schema 
> > and xsl (which also need stable uris). So my suggestion 
> would be the 
> > following (based on Robin's of course).
> > 
> > Get a subdirectory called issues, place all files there and 
> symlink to 
> > latest version as the base filename, i.e. 
> ReliableMessagingIssues.xml.
> > So far so good, I don't think any of this is contentious. The
> challenge
> > is we'll need to version the filename, so what are people's opinion?
> > Follow the same convention as the TC docs, i.e. -nn where 
> nn = nn + 1 
> > for each revision?
> 
> We can implement whatever you want: -nn works well, or -nnn 
> if you think you'll ever get to 100 :-)
> 
> > 
> > Note this is not an automated process. Robin has offered to take on
> the
> > burden of placing these files there whenever they are 
> updated. Which I 
> > guess now I see another option. Should we just keep using Kavi and
> setup
> > symlinks to each new version posted there? Would that be possible
> Robin?
> 
> I can ask the IT department (again), but the answer we have 
> received more than once is that we canNOT make use of symlink 
> in connection with Kavi resources.  We could probably use 
> DNS+HTTP redirect from the docs-DOT repository (from 
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/<whatever> ) but that's not 
> a good option: redirect involves a second server request, and 
> the address that's displayed in a Web browser's address 
> window would be the versioned URI such as you now have. e.g.,
> 
> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/14894/Reliab
> leMessagin
> gIssues.xml
> 
> You probably want people to bookmark the fixed/stable URI, 
> but that won't happen, as HTTP redirect will leave the Kavi 
> versioned URI as the bookmarkable address.  So I don't 
> recommend HTTP redirect in this context.
> 
> Apparently we can't get access to a real device on the Kavi 
> file system because the 'download.php/<magicNumber>' is 
> masking some horribly ugly string that's not meant for human 
> eyes, and not intended as a regular user file, etc.
> 
> We are in the process of automating support for "latest 
> version" on the docs-DOT repository, and giving TCs the 
> ability to create their own files/symlinks on that system.  
> It will probably be rolled out in stages, the first of which 
> would be via SSH/SCP (a kind of "secure FTP" which also 
> permits you to create your own symlinks).
> Work in progress.
> 
> I stand by my offer to help in the interim, if you want.
> 
> **Mary/Jamie, please correct this if I've not conveyed things 
> accurately.
> 
> Unofficially,
> Robin Cover
> 
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Marc g
> 
> [1] TC requests for persistent URL
> 
> [i]
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ws-rx-editors/200507/msg0
> 0010.html
> July 20, 2005 - "Persistent urls for documents" - I need a 
> persistent URL for the issue list for our TC, and ideally any 
> document uploaded to the document store. The problem is that 
> without a persistent url the old links will remain in email 
> archives etc. and people will not get the current issues list 
> (or other document). This problem gets worse in that I have 
> uploaded schemas and xsl that format that list. Those will 
> change less often but without persistent urls for those I 
> have a lot more work to do to update the issue list.
> 
> [ii]
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ws-rx-editors/200509/msg0
> 0090.html
> September 28, 2005 - Maybe this was already answered but I 
> don't immediately see a response. It is not true that adding 
> a document with the same name keeps the url the same. It is 
> actually a huge pain that it doesn't, I'd prefer to give a 
> url for a specific version and have one be the latest like at 
> W3C but that is not how Kavi works. Kavi creates an id for 
> each document revision that becomes part of the url.
> So every time you update a doc there you get a new url, same 
> name or not.
> 
> [iii]
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ws-rx-editors/200509/msg0
> 0020.html
> [September 18, 2005 message responded to by Marc Goodner] 
> "However, there is a problem. The document name stays the 
> same. My understanding/assumption was that we will have 
> individual URLs and identifiers that reflect the version 
> numbers. This is easily solved with the cvs, but not here..."
> 
> [iv]
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ws-rx-editors/200510/msg0
> 0033.html
> Marc Goodner October 12, 2005 "I try to update the issue list 
> soon after the minutes come out (with varying success). I 
> will not agree to update the issue list this any more often 
> than this as things stand today. I actually try not to update 
> it more than this since it always changes the URI of the 
> issue list. If we can get a stable URI to the issue list I 
> could agree to do incremental updates in addition to the one 
> after the call. That would also make it a lot easier to share 
> the responsibility so that other editors can move their items 
> from pending to done when they update a draft with a 
> resolution without making everyone in the TC wonder if they 
> have the latest version of the issue list. So what's going on 
> with CVS? Is that our answer for getting a stable URI and 
> making this thing easier to update?
>