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Subject: RE: [wsbpel-implement] Portable BPEL source code usage scenario (was RE: [wsbpel-implement] Implementation subgroup call 10/13)
I'm not sure how useful this scenario may be. I believe BPEL is designed for portable processes, not portable human readable source code. XML doesn't necessarily guarantee readability (see SVG or any complex RDF representation). Human readability should not be a goal of BPEL since most BPEL will not be consumed by humans. > -----Original Message----- > From: Sazi Temel [mailto:sazi@bea.com] > Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 7:01 PM > To: Diane Jordan; bpel implementation > Subject: [wsbpel-implement] Portable BPEL source code usage scenario (was RE: > [wsbpel-implement] Implementation subgroup call 10/13) > > > Diane, > Here is the example (usage scenario) that I have mentioned in our last conf call. It > is originally suggested by Yaron Golan. The purpose of this usage scenario is to > explore whether the purpose of BPEL is to provide portable execution or portable > human readable source code. I do not have a concrete example with WSDL/BPEL > files etc., after all it is not one of the usual use case which is related to a business > process; and I don't think we need one to discuss it anyway. There are different > implications for BPEL depending on the answer [ a) provide portable execution, b) > provide portable source code or c) both ]. Since it is related to portability issue, I > thought the implementation group might find it interesting/useful to discuss. > > Here is the scenario: Portable Execution or Portable Source? > ------------------------------------------------------------ > - User A writes a BPEL using their favorite tool Tool_A > - User A uses a typical programming construct not provided in BPEL like for-each > or if-then or until > - Tool A translates the programming construct into a form supported by BPEL > - User A hands their BPEL to User B to edit. > - User B tries to edit the BPEL using their favorite tool, Tool_B > - User B is confused because a lot of the BPEL code looks weird, what has > happened is that Tool_B doesn't encode the programming constructs the same way > Tool_A has so Tool_B can't represent the constructs in their higher level semantic > (e.g. as a for-each) and instead has to show a ton of strange BPEL code with > counters and lots of fancy XPATHs etc. > > > Sazi > ' > > Sazi Temel Principle Consultant, Integration Architect > ' Sazi.Temel@bea.com > BEA Systems Inc. http://www.bea.com > 140 Allen Road Office: +1 908 580 3123 > Liberty Corner, NJ 07938 Mobile: +1 856 261 8582 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Diane Jordan [mailto:drj@us.ibm.com.bea.com] > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 5:59 PM > To: bpel implementation > Subject: [wsbpel-implement] Implementation subgroup call 10/13 > > > Attendees on the implementation subgroup call today were: Monica Martin, > Ron Ten Hove, Mike Marin, Ugo Corda, Rania Khalaf, Sazi Temel, Bernd > Eckenfels. > Major points of discussion (feel free to correct, comment or add to this): > > - Interoperability for BPEL has a couple facets. By virtue of being based > on web services, a level of interoperability is obtained. For this level > of interoperability we should reference the work of WSI and BP1.0. We > discussed whether there is a higher level of interoperablity for BPEL > which would involve the ability for BPEL processes on different > deployments to interoperate on a collaborative business process. This > concept needs further definition and may evolve from the work of this > subgroup. > - Portability would be the next level to explore after the intrinsic web > services based interoperability. By this we mean the ability to deploy a > BPEL process to different BPEL implementation and get the same results at > least in the interpretation of the process by the BPEL engine. The > execution may vary based on the deployment environment and bindings and > actual messages on the wire will differ because of bindings. Identical > message flows at this level would not be an objective of portability but > might come into play for interoperability. > - Scenarios for interoperability and portability would help us to > crystalize these points. Sazi has a use case showing interoperability > that he will share with us for the next call. We noted that the use case > subgroup is developing use cases top down based on business requirements > whereas the scenarios we're talking about would be more bottoms up > technology examples. > - Interoperability at the business process level may bring up QoS issues, > for example reliable messaging. Since there are other specs that attempt > to address many of these issues that are not widely accepted yet, we will > avoid dependancies on them and scope our work to the functions absolutely > required. > - we have an offer to hold the next face to face in Melbourne Fla either > the first or second week of Dec. If we had enough interest we can arrange > for space for an implementation workshop of some sort - possibilities > range from a showcase of members' implementations to some interoperability > or portability work. It was noted that it might be very aggressive to try > to do portability or interoperability work in that timeframe. I will > discuss this on the next TC call and see if we have sufficient interest > (eg, at least 3-5 companies willing to at bring implementations). In a > later conversation, I was asked if this would be a public event, and I do > not think it should be. > - It was suggested that we might want to include consideration of tooling > products that produce BPEL as we proceed with implementations. > - This group is not intended to focus exclusively on portability and > interoperability although the first two meetings were spend discussing > this. As a group with particular expertise and interest in BPEL > implementations, there are many types of input that would be valuable to > the TC and other members of this subgroup (maintaining appropriate > confidentiality regarding your companies' plans, products, etc. ). Since > the subgroup is not "normative", it will not have formal work products or > issues independent of the full TC but can make recommendations to the TC. > Additional topics of discussion related to implementations should be sent > to the email list. > > Thanks for your participation - next call is Oct. 27. > > Regards, Diane > IBM Dynamic e-business Technologies > drj@us.ibm.com > (919)254-7221 or 8-444-7221, Mobile: 919-624-5123 >
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