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Subject: RE: [wsbpel] Groups - 2003-09-18.BTM.BPEL.syntax.summary.ppt uploaded


I also had the impression that the term "transaction" is used on our list referring alternatively to the two different things you mention below. I think we should pick two different names for them and use them consistently, otherwise discussions can get very confusing.

Ugo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Furniss, Peter [mailto:Peter.Furniss@choreology.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 11:45 AM
> To: David RR Webber; wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [wsbpel] Groups - 2003-09-18.BTM.BPEL.syntax.summary.ppt
> uploaded
> 
> 
> David,
> 
> thanks.
>  but ..
> 
> Your suggestion for type makes me uncertain certain we're thinking of
> "transaction" in quite the same way.  
> 
> I can envisage properties of a transaction, and the need to 
> specify them
> ( sub-issue is how much is in the bpel proper and how much by
> configuration - actually this relates to the general 
> strategic issue of
> how much goes in the portable bpel and how much in the perhaps
> not-so-portable immediate environment (cf issue 11 
> discussion)). but I'd
> thought of those as being things like "atomic" versus "selective", or
> timelimits or "ws-atomic" v "ws-caf(lra)". This possibility 
> is mentioned
> in our earlier text input, but I didn't include it in the examples in
> the ppt.   Your "type" values (and some of the other fields 
> you suggest)
> make me wonder if you are thinking of transaction in the sense of
> roughly "a defined multi-party pattern of interaction" - what 
> I think is
> considered as "a choreography" in Another Place. I was thinking of
> business transaction in sense of an equivalent of a classic ACID
> transaction as applied to the (usually) more loosely-coupled world of
> web-services - a set of interactions that are subject to a common
> decision to complete or reverse (see Alastair's presentation 
> for better
> and perhaps more comprehensble descriptions). Both, by history, are
> reasonable meanings of "business transaction", but they are 
> really quite
> different.
> 
> Our proposal was concerned with the ability for bpel processes to
> initiate, control, propagate and participate in business transactions
> where a supporting generic protocol communicated whether the entities
> should complete their work, or parts of it positively (confirmed,
> finally completed) or negatively (cancelled, compensated). 
> That could be
> a component or aspect of some of independently defined 
> interactions, but
> is essential orthogonal to such questions.
> 
> It may be I've completely misunderstood and you are talking about
> exactly the same kind of beast as I am, but with different 
> names for the
> parts. In which case, sorry. (but I really don't understand threadID)
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David RR Webber [mailto:david@drrw.info] 
> > Sent: 24 September 2003 18:44
> > To: wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org; Furniss, Peter
> > Subject: Re: [wsbpel] Groups - 
> > 2003-09-18.BTM.BPEL.syntax.summary.ppt uploaded
> > 
> > 
> > Peter,
> > 
> > I've just reviewed your PPT - looks a good start point.  What 
> > I'd like to add to the consideration is the following bullet 
> > points that add ability to point to transaction properties::
> > 
> >     - name of transaction
> >     - type - XML/EDI/UBL/BOD et al
> >     - URL to definition (schema or CAM template)
> >     - version
> >     - context URL (points to XML that contains context)
> >     - threadID (optional - where applicable)
> > 
> > Thanks, DW.
> > 
> > > Document Description:
> > > Proposed changes to BPEL to support Business Transaction 
> > management -
> > Peter Furniss & Tony Fletcher presentation
> > >
> > 
> > 
> 
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