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Subject: Minutes from the teleconference on 21st February






The minutes are stored here:
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/11627

and attached.

(See attached file: WSRF TC [21Feb05] notes[0].htm)


Regards, Tim Banks
Title: WSRF TC notes

Notes from the OASIS WSRF TC teleconference
21st February 2005

Roll call

 

The roll call is kept on the TC web site under the meeting record.

See http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsrf/event.php?event_id=4814

 

Minute Taker: David Levine

 

Not quarate yet

Approval of minutes from the face-to-face meeting (21st February)

 

See http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/11527

There were no comments on the minutes and no objections to approving them.

 

AOB?

 

None

 

Action review

 

Actions have taken places on the issues list, per the

f2f  Specs largely updated, Service group still being worked on

 

Charter Change vote initiated -- reminder to vote, so we can have 75% of members to remove renewable refernces specification from the deliverables.

 

WIKI site -- nothing done as yet carry forward

 

SG signed up to be link with Obix committee (done)

 

Points on action items? - None.

 

New issues

 

BM: new issues

 

97  --  Query RP port type, doesn't contain attributes which points to XML

schema, needs to be added to that porttype (WSRP resource properties

attribute) Open - not quorate

 

98 -- cardinality of Set resource property content

 

    Shouldn't minoccurs be one? -- prevents vacuous resource property

    commands

 

        sg: What breaks if it is? - nothing, but nonsensical. Move to

open

 

99 -- Non normative examples in spec us soap 1.2 namespace. Should we be

using soap 1.1 namespace instead? (What should go in the interop doc?)

WSIBP 1.1 compliant, need to be soap 1.1 namespace) So examples should

match. -- Open

 

100 - Confusion about requirement that WS-Basefaults for WS-Resources -

Raised by Ian Springer, Steve Graham.  SG: Every fault must be

derivative/should be derivative of base fault. (Wording improvements?)

Tied up with cleanup of wording around... clairfy text May need a

little more text in first bullet senstance to make clear, and stronger -- Open

 

End of new issues

 

Next f2f

Dubln capacity too small for meeting. Palo Alto SAP

Begining of week 16-may Noon Monday to Noon Wednesday, WSN in same

venue to follow Umit and Sanjay to handle logistics. (Instructuions, etc)

 

ServiceGroup usage and requirements

 

Two presentations:

 

    Sam, heather Kreger

 

    Service group usage and requirements (Both on web site)

 

    Heather first:

 

    How we use SG in WSDM, and in a mapping for DMTF to CIM

   

    How to expose resources for management as web services

        Key aspects: Composability, exhibit behavior of a collection,

        provide common concepts (Identity, Discovery, Advertisement) SG

        groups come in here.

 

    WSDM mostly focused on how to manage the resource, compelled to

    provide some advice and recommendation (non-normative) how to do

    discovery and advertisement (Recommend SGs)

 

    Wrap existing management registries with SG

 

    Basic properties an resources to use in this case (basic interop

    and searchable properties) Identity from WSDM-MUWS, Resource ID,

    Manage Characteristics, manage capabilities. (URI list of management

    capabilities that resource exposes)

    Find by property/property values as well as capabilities.

    Difficult to restrict/search using same content rule

    Able to put all WSFM manageable resources into registries, beyond

    first few properties, everything else was resource specific. (Need some

    way to allow people to add any type of service to a group, still be able

    to search sparsely populated properties) (somewhat tricky

 

    Be able to define a rule that you must have ID, capabilities, then

    need properties in content rule, or can't search.

 

    Creation events, when bringing them into the environment, use

    resource ID to register into the local SG.  (Don't talk about  how

    to populate -- sort of implied that there is a registry mechanism)

    Either register to get notification, or periodically poll for new

    ones.

 

    Bootstrapping issues -- how do you find first SG location. Several

    ways you can do this, for example UDDI, none recommended

 

    Consider separate membership content/query rules Possibly think

about support for sparsely populated values.

 

Using CIM - slide 9

 

Move arrows on slide 9 from proprietary to Web Services

 

Slide 10 - common properties for the arrows on slide 9 (What they do)

Slide 11 - Examples of queries we want to be able to do no the model.

           CIM query language (Not to be confused with SQL) Work to be

           done to synch up with Xpath.

   

Slide 12 - Cim server becomes general management server.

           US WS protocols to talk to the resources, and talk to

           resources with non CIM models. (See bottom 2, in blue)

Slide 13- Use red highlighted WSRF stuff to get those jobs done in WSDM

          in the web services mapping

 

Sldie 14 - WR-WN for application pattern, CIM for model, WSDM for

        operations model

 

Slide 15- Either via WS_RF or SMASH (command line interface) using CIM

 

    Diff CIM/Smash (Command line vs. exposed CIM provider)

models

    Does management application see the difference between CIM/SMash,

 

    When doing WS-* should be the same whether CIM or SMASH (hk)

 

    Today, Yes, when moving to WS, no. (hk)

 

Slide 16 - Resource mapping -- locate all classes which look like

manageable resources, almost all from managed system element,

represent that as a WSDM maagble resource. Supports WS-RP and

Resource-ID *(from WSDM) took all propereties in those classes and they

become resource propeerties, all operations to WSDL operations

 

Slide 17 - Associated data (Reresent hese as straight WS-Resources)

           assocaued withWSFM managed resource, with a relationship

 

Sldie 18 - Instances colletcion (service group) General collections)

 

Slide 19 - "Interesting one" Created classes collection, to as,

questions about the classes and and thier instances. Classes in the

model have on properties and operations  For each fo these claases,

service group of call instances of the class Can get all instances of a

class, and all instanbces of all descendents

 

    For class X , list class 1 and class2 as superclass, locate all

places where class X occurs to find the descendents

 

Hierchy is kept in resource properties.

 

3 collections - very similar proposal was brough forward by another

proposal group on the team.

 

How to federate CIMOMs to get larger resource domanis you can search

over. Can use this as a federation so that you have these collections

span multiple CIMOMs with virtually no n changs in arch.

 

Slide 20 - What presented to DMTF

 

    Corellateable properties so can understand name in the CIM

community.

 

skip to Slide 23 - Use service group queires (red) to  enumerate stuff

Slide 24 - Again, use SG queries to enumerate classes.

 

 

Query vs. content rules discussion - What's searchable? HK, only what's

in the content rule is searchable. (Her reading) Content vs searchable

should be two different rules (Desire)

 

 

Sam's pitch:

 

Slide 1: Grouping -- Even for discovering and modeling part, is essential part

they want form the spec. Lightweight way to group WS-Resources together.

 

Important to have lease based lifetime mechanisms for robustness in

distributed settings

 

Ability to drive operations across multiple WS-resources

Like to see example/clarification of how to drive an operation across

multiple instances though a service group

 

Example which clarifies the use case would be welcome

 

Explicitly address an example of this in the Spec or appnotes.

 

Ties to issue 64. (need a mechanism)

 

Slide 2: Registry

 

    Regsitry, including very dynamic information

    May want to discover all queue lengths for seeveral schedules, with

    dynamic infomrationa

 

    reqt: How information gets published into the regsitry (push vs.

          pull) should be spec agnostic. A few examples of the pull.

          (e.g. regsiter EPR, and do periodic pull)

 

          Possibly to things out of band (calculate latancy for all

          members, using non WS emchanisms)

   

 

    Uniform query i/f across both RP and Service groups.  -- need leaf

based content/lifetime management to do this.

 

(Aside, UDDI doesn't meet these requirements)

 

Slide 3- Existing implementations

   

Index service - arbitrary operation performed on all registrants

 

Trigger service - register with it, pluggable/deployed action that

happens on value change notification on any of the entries.

 

Archive services - Serves as querable over time archive fo values via

notification

 

Would like to use service groups to drive WSRF actions across group of

regsitrants

 

Q&A: None

 

---------

(2 new joins to the meeting, so now quorate)

 

Issues Review

 

WSRF44: No obvious mechanism to include only members which extend a certain interface

 

We believe Tom Maguire as action to on this, posptone, until we hear from tom. Tom has action item to make proposal  

Action: Tom to respond, hopefully with a proposal

 

WSRF58: ServiceGroup WSDL does not need imports for WSRF-RL WSDL/schema

 

Spec doesn't references WSDL/Schema, needs to Approach at

f2f was thought this was overkill, just use similar schema Remove

imports from WSDL document -- (Agreed to move all of XSD into an XSD

file, so should be easy) No objections - Editors to do. (resolved)

 

WSRD-59 (Editorial level details in Service group doc.) e.g. property

missing of a UML diagram.

 

Discussion about controversial level. Is non-controversial, expect for

unsupported i/f fault, which should be withdrawn. - Resolve to pass the

rest to the editors to implement.

 

WSRF70: Bug in ServiceGroup WSDL

 

Resolved in issue 60. (Close no action) Bryan Will talk to

developers, to make sure it is correct.

 

WSRF66: Discovery of schema for a dynamic resource property

 

mechanism to aggregate operation across several resources in a service group

 

    SG: talked about for a while. Send a message to a SG, have the

message invoked upon consituuent members.

 

        q: How do we aggrgeate the resposne

        q: How to we handle faults

            - if only some understand the WSDL, do I invoke on all,

            some, ignroe faults, etc.

            - correlate the responses? Do I wait for all responses,

              etc.

         TB: Did this come from a homogenous service group context?

         Sg: How would uniform service group get enforced

         Martin: Thought we decided beyond scope.

 

         Was mentioned in Sam's foil set.

 

         Want to be able to apply management operations across mulitple

         resources.

 

         OGSA doesn't specifiy aggregation of response/faults

 

        Just end them a message -- With notification, some notion of

        having subscribed to the topic. -- many messages are request resposne,

        so doesn't help there.

 

        Martin - if we do this, we can get bogged down.

 

        sg: service group may allow an optimization point (e.g. service

        group which holds the resource, so can locally do it)

 

        (Latha?) Collection of identiifies - however represented -- may not

        yield themselves into a well encapsulated service group  Seems

        like using a service group adds another step to the process.

        (e.g. can create set of IDs, without making them correspond to a

         single service group)

 

        Becomes a question (struggle with OGSA  will they adopt WSRF

        implied resource pattern or not) One missing piece is iterator to do

        these sorts of things

 

        Sam willing to go off an work on a propsal, Tom as well, Dave

        Snelling as well. Action: on these people to do so.

   

        All new specs uploaded, as seoon as we have service group, will

        have ballot to adopt these drafts as drafts. Need to make sure

        we have read those drafts well enough to consider all issues

        closed by these drafts to be closed. e.g.

 

Action: by all to review current drafts. Final reviews needed now.

   

Straggler's role call.

 

Close.

 

 

 

 

Summary of actions

 

(Chairs) Investigate WIKI site for Developing AppNotes  (carried forward from 4th Feb)

(Bryan) Move issues 97, 98,99 and 100  to ‘Open’.

(TomM) Respond, hopefully with a proposal to resolve issue wsrf44.

(Bryan) Move issues 58, 59  to resolved.

(Sam, TomM, DaveS) Propose resolution to issue 66.

(All) Review current drafts. Final reviews needed are now.

 



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