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Subject: Re: [Fwd: FW: [wsrm] RE: WS-ReliableMessaging Spec Workshop Invitation-- Please Forward as Appropriate]


I just realized, that Tuesday July 15 is the date for our WSRM 
conference call
from 2:30 to 4:30 Pacific time.

Tom Rutt
\
Doug Bunting wrote:

> Colleen,
>
> If specifications are separated appropriately, separate and 
> independent development should be straight-forward.  Are you saying 
> Microsoft has done a poor job architecting GXA?  Composability of the 
> results and broad involvement in specification development should not 
> be contradictory aims.  Besides all that, one of the main enemies of 
> interoperability is competitive specifications.
>
> Sun strongly agrees with the points Magdolna and Alan have already 
> raised.  If WS-ReliableMessaging, unlike at least BPEL4WS and 
> WS-Security, cannot be brought forward without the rest of the 
> architecture you are developing, fine.  Please submit the whole ball 
> of wax to this or another standards venue.  We believe specifications 
> need to be publicly and openly discussed and improved before they are 
> designated as standards.
>
> thanx,
>     doug
>
> On 07-Jul-03 07:22, Tom Rutt wrote:
>
>> I forward this from Colleen Evans, from Microsoft.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Subject:
>> FW: [wsrm] RE: WS-ReliableMessaging Spec Workshop Invitation -- 
>> Please Forward as Appropriate
>> From:
>> "Colleen Evans" <coevans@microsoft.com>
>> Date:
>> Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:18:30 -0700
>> To:
>> "Tom Rutt" <tom@coastin.com>, "Doug Bunting" <doug.bunting@Sun.com>
>>
>>
>> Hi Tom and Doug,
>>
>> I received a reject from the TC list (only contributing members may 
>> post).  As I believe Magdolna and Alan are both out of the office, 
>> could one of you please forward this to the list?
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Colleen
>>
>>  
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Colleen Evans
>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 06, 2003 10:08 PM
>> *To:* 'Alan Weissberger'; magdolna.gerendai@nokia.com
>> *Cc:* wsrm@lists.oasis-open.org; Felipe Cabrera
>> *Subject:* RE: [wsrm] RE: WS-ReliableMessaging Spec Workshop 
>> Invitation -- Please Forward as Appropriate
>>
>>  
>>
>> Magdolna and Alan,
>>
>>  
>>
>> We are soliciting technical input that relates to improving technical 
>> aspects such as the performance, simplicity, robustness and 
>> composability of the WS-ReliableMessaging specification. 
>>  
>>
>> A core requirement that drives the WS-ReliableMessaging specification 
>> is maintaining architectural cohesion within the specification and in 
>> relation to other web services specifications (WS-Security, Policy, 
>> and so on) and composability with other specifications that describe 
>> assurances (e.g. WS-Transactions).  It is therefore very hard to 
>> proceed on final design of any one particular specification without 
>> commensurate progress on the others.  Separating this specificationís 
>> process from the other Web Services specifications it composes with 
>> would harm the goals of composability and architectural coherence. A 
>> litmus test for the web services architecture is /bone fide/ 
>> interoperability and composability demonstrated between various 
>> implementations from several vendors.
>>  
>>
>> The authors have organized this workshop to solicit public input and 
>> discussion on these specifications while they are early in their 
>> development.  We believe that specifications need to demonstrate 
>> their value before it is appropriate to consider designating them a 
>> standard. Successful workshops with community input facilitate 
>> reaching the interoperability and composability target needed to 
>> assure that these specifications meet their goals. As the 
>> specification matures and this extent of interoperability has been 
>> demonstrated, the authors will decide on the appropriate relation to 
>> standards organizations and/or any other specification efforts.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Colleen
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Alan Weissberger [mailto:ajwdct@technologist.com]
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 04, 2003 9:27 AM
>> *To:* magdolna.gerendai@nokia.com; Colleen Evans
>> *Cc:* wsrm@lists.oasis-open.org; Felipe Cabrera
>> *Subject:* Re: [wsrm] RE: WS-ReliableMessaging Spec Workshop 
>> Invitation -- Please Forward as Appropriate
>>
>>  
>>
>> Colleen
>>
>> What standards body are you planning to take your revised spec to?  
>> As far as I know, OASIS is the only appropriate standards body for 
>> this work.
>>
>> As I mentioned to you today, not only is the WS-RM TC open, but we 
>> ARE NOT about to rubber stamp the spec that was brought in to 
>> initiate the TC.
>> The WS-RM TC members have spent all our time and efforts on 
>> establishing functional requirements.  These will be incorporate into 
>> the spec (with additions and deletions), as agreed.  For example, on 
>> last week's telecon we got rid of Message ID, as it was considered to 
>> be redundant with Group ID/Sequence number as a unique identifier.
>>
>> At GGF8 in Seattle, I talked to Felipe Cabrera of Microsoft about 
>> participating in the WS-RM TC.  He was not very receptive and told me 
>> to read your spec, as it was clearly superior.
>>
>> My opinion is that competing specs are harmful to the industry.  It 
>> would be great if the two WS RM'g specs could be consolidated/ merged 
>> to incorporate the best features of both.  This could take place in  
>> the WS-RM TC if Microsoft and the other authors decided to participate.
>>
>> I will attend your workshop on July 15, but will not offer any 
>> opinions or suggestions on how Microsoft and other authors should 
>> progress the work on Reliable Messaging..
>>  
>>
>> Sincerely
>>
>>  
>>
>> alan
>>
>> Alan Weissberger
>>
>> Technical Consultant- NEC
>> 2013 Acacia Ct
>>
>> Santa Clara, CA 95050-3482
>>
>> 1 408 863 6042 voice
>>
>> 1 408 863 6099 fax
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:
>> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:13:22 +0200
>> To:
>> Subject: [wsrm] RE: WS-ReliableMessaging Spec Workshop Invitation -- 
>> Please Forward as Appropriate
>>
>> Hi Colleen,
>>
>>  
>>
>> I'm a bit surprised. And have a question based on the quote from the 
>> document you sent:
>>
>>  "
>>
>> The authors of the Specification intend to submit a revised version 
>> of the Specification to a standards body with a commitment to grant a 
>> royalty-free license to their necessary patents.  We need assurance 
>> that your feedback and discussions are consistent with that goal.
>>
>> "
>>
>> Why don't they join to the OASIS WS-RM TC to work on ONE 
>> WS-Reliability standard instead of going to standardize another one ? 
>> The OASIS WS-RM TC is open.
>>
>>  
>>
>> br,
>>
>> Magdolna
>>
>>  
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* ext Colleen Evans [mailto:coevans@microsoft.com]
>> *Sent:* July 03,2003 3:46
>> *Subject:* WS-ReliableMessaging Spec Workshop Invitation -- Please 
>> Forward as Appropriate
>>
>> The authors of the recently-published WS-ReliableMessaging 
>> specification are hosting a 1-day meeting on July 15, 2003, 9am to 
>> 5pm, to discuss this specification.  This meeting will be held in 
>> Building 21, Columbia conference room on the Microsoft campus in 
>> Redmond, WA.
>>
>>  
>>
>> This is an ad-hoc, open forum for 1) *SPECIFICATION AUTHORS* to share 
>> background information on the design of the specifications and to 
>> receive feedback and 2) *SOFTWARE VENDORS* to discuss their ideas 
>> about the practicality of implementing these and related Web Services 
>> specifications.
>>
>>  
>>
>> We'd like this to be an open meeting and collect a broad range of 
>> ideas. If you are interested in participating in the discussions, 
>> please reply to this mail by *EOD 11 July 2003*.  Feel free to pass 
>> this invitation along to other potential participants, either in your 
>> company or elsewhere.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Note that in order to attend, the attached legal agreement MUST be 
>> signed by each attendee.
>>  
>>
>> Thank you and we look forward to seeing you soon.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Colleen Evans
>>
>> XML Web Services Standards
>> Microsoft Corporation
>> 303 791-3090 or 425 703-9066
>> Mobile: 720 480-3919
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> You may leave a Technical Committee at any time by visiting 
>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsrm/members/leave_workgroup.php
>
>
>
> You may leave a Technical Committee at any time by visiting 
> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsrm/members/leave_workgroup.php
>


-- 
----------------------------------------------------
Tom Rutt		email: tom@coastin.com; trutt@fsw.fujitsu.com
Tel: +1 732 801 5744          Fax: +1 732 774 5133






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