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Subject: We need to reschedule WS-RM conference call


Tom

In the interests of harmony and peace, I suggest postponing the call.
How about later the same week?

alan
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Rutt <tom@coastin.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:34:48 -0400
To: Doug Bunting <Doug.Bunting@Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: FW: [wsrm] RE: WS-ReliableMessaging Spec Workshop Invitation --   Please Forward as Appropriate] 

> I just realized, that Tuesday July 15 is the date for our WSRM 
> conference call
> from 2:30 to 4:30 Pacific time.
> 
> Tom Rutt
> \
> Doug Bunting wrote:
> 
> > Colleen,
> >
> > If specifications are separated appropriately, separate and 
> > independent development should be straight-forward.  Are you saying 
> > Microsoft has done a poor job architecting GXA?  Composability of the 
> > results and broad involvement in specification development should not 
> > be contradictory aims.  Besides all that, one of the main enemies of 
> > interoperability is competitive specifications.
> >
> > Sun strongly agrees with the points Magdolna and Alan have already 
> > raised.  If WS-ReliableMessaging, unlike at least BPEL4WS and 
> > WS-Security, cannot be brought forward without the rest of the 
> > architecture you are developing, fine.  Please submit the whole ball 
> > of wax to this or another standards venue.  We believe specifications 
> > need to be publicly and openly discussed and improved before they are 
> > designated as standards.
> >
> > thanx,
> >     doug
> >
> > On 07-Jul-03 07:22, Tom Rutt wrote:
> >
> >> I forward this from Colleen Evans, from Microsoft.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Subject:
> >> FW: [wsrm] RE: WS-ReliableMessaging Spec Workshop Invitation -- 
> >> Please Forward as Appropriate
> >> From:
> >> "Colleen Evans" <coevans@microsoft.com>
> >> Date:
> >> Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:18:30 -0700
> >> To:
> >> "Tom Rutt" <tom@coastin.com>, "Doug Bunting" <doug.bunting@Sun.com>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Tom and Doug,
> >>
> >> I received a reject from the TC list (only contributing members may 
> >> post).  As I believe Magdolna and Alan are both out of the office, 
> >> could one of you please forward this to the list?
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Colleen
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> *From:* Colleen Evans
> >> *Sent:* Sunday, July 06, 2003 10:08 PM
> >> *To:* 'Alan Weissberger'; magdolna.gerendai@nokia.com
> >> *Cc:* wsrm@lists.oasis-open.org; Felipe Cabrera
> >> *Subject:* RE: [wsrm] RE: WS-ReliableMessaging Spec Workshop 
> >> Invitation -- Please Forward as Appropriate
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Magdolna and Alan,
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> We are soliciting technical input that relates to improving technical 
> >> aspects such as the performance, simplicity, robustness and 
> >> composability of the WS-ReliableMessaging specification. 
> >>  
> >>
> >> A core requirement that drives the WS-ReliableMessaging specification 
> >> is maintaining architectural cohesion within the specification and in 
> >> relation to other web services specifications (WS-Security, Policy, 
> >> and so on) and composability with other specifications that describe 
> >> assurances (e.g. WS-Transactions).  It is therefore very hard to 
> >> proceed on final design of any one particular specification without 
> >> commensurate progress on the others.  Separating this specificationís 
> >> process from the other Web Services specifications it composes with 
> >> would harm the goals of composability and architectural coherence. A 
> >> litmus test for the web services architecture is /bone fide/ 
> >> interoperability and composability demonstrated between various 
> >> implementations from several vendors.
> >>  
> >>
> >> The authors have organized this workshop to solicit public input and 
> >> discussion on these specifications while they are early in their 
> >> development.  We believe that specifications need to demonstrate 
> >> their value before it is appropriate to consider designating them a 
> >> standard. Successful workshops with community input facilitate 
> >> reaching the interoperability and composability target needed to 
> >> assure that these specifications meet their goals. As the 
> >> specification matures and this extent of interoperability has been 
> >> demonstrated, the authors will decide on the appropriate relation to 
> >> standards organizations and/or any other specification efforts.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Colleen
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> *From:* Alan Weissberger [mailto:ajwdct@technologist.com]
> >> *Sent:* Friday, July 04, 2003 9:27 AM
> >> *To:* magdolna.gerendai@nokia.com; Colleen Evans
> >> *Cc:* wsrm@lists.oasis-open.org; Felipe Cabrera
> >> *Subject:* Re: [wsrm] RE: WS-ReliableMessaging Spec Workshop 
> >> Invitation -- Please Forward as Appropriate
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Colleen
> >>
> >> What standards body are you planning to take your revised spec to?  
> >> As far as I know, OASIS is the only appropriate standards body for 
> >> this work.
> >>
> >> As I mentioned to you today, not only is the WS-RM TC open, but we 
> >> ARE NOT about to rubber stamp the spec that was brought in to 
> >> initiate the TC.
> >> The WS-RM TC members have spent all our time and efforts on 
> >> establishing functional requirements.  These will be incorporate into 
> >> the spec (with additions and deletions), as agreed.  For example, on 
> >> last week's telecon we got rid of Message ID, as it was considered to 
> >> be redundant with Group ID/Sequence number as a unique identifier.
> >>
> >> At GGF8 in Seattle, I talked to Felipe Cabrera of Microsoft about 
> >> participating in the WS-RM TC.  He was not very receptive and told me 
> >> to read your spec, as it was clearly superior.
> >>
> >> My opinion is that competing specs are harmful to the industry.  It 
> >> would be great if the two WS RM'g specs could be consolidated/ merged 
> >> to incorporate the best features of both.  This could take place in  
> >> the WS-RM TC if Microsoft and the other authors decided to participate.
> >>
> >> I will attend your workshop on July 15, but will not offer any 
> >> opinions or suggestions on how Microsoft and other authors should 
> >> progress the work on Reliable Messaging..
> >>  
> >>
> >> Sincerely
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> alan
> >>
> >> Alan Weissberger
> >>
> >> Technical Consultant- NEC
> >> 2013 Acacia Ct
> >>
> >> Santa Clara, CA 95050-3482
> >>
> >> 1 408 863 6042 voice
> >>
> >> 1 408 863 6099 fax
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From:
> >> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:13:22 +0200
> >> To:
> >> Subject: [wsrm] RE: WS-ReliableMessaging Spec Workshop Invitation -- 
> >> Please Forward as Appropriate
> >>
> >> Hi Colleen,
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> I'm a bit surprised. And have a question based on the quote from the 
> >> document you sent:
> >>
> >>  "
> >>
> >> The authors of the Specification intend to submit a revised version 
> >> of the Specification to a standards body with a commitment to grant a 
> >> royalty-free license to their necessary patents.  We need assurance 
> >> that your feedback and discussions are consistent with that goal.
> >>
> >> "
> >>
> >> Why don't they join to the OASIS WS-RM TC to work on ONE 
> >> WS-Reliability standard instead of going to standardize another one ? 
> >> The OASIS WS-RM TC is open.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> br,
> >>
> >> Magdolna
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> *From:* ext Colleen Evans [mailto:coevans@microsoft.com]
> >> *Sent:* July 03,2003 3:46
> >> *Subject:* WS-ReliableMessaging Spec Workshop Invitation -- Please 
> >> Forward as Appropriate
> >>
> >> The authors of the recently-published WS-ReliableMessaging 
> >> specification are hosting a 1-day meeting on July 15, 2003, 9am to 
> >> 5pm, to discuss this specification.  This meeting will be held in 
> >> Building 21, Columbia conference room on the Microsoft campus in 
> >> Redmond, WA.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> This is an ad-hoc, open forum for 1) *SPECIFICATION AUTHORS* to share 
> >> background information on the design of the specifications and to 
> >> receive feedback and 2) *SOFTWARE VENDORS* to discuss their ideas 
> >> about the practicality of implementing these and related Web Services 
> >> specifications.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> We'd like this to be an open meeting and collect a broad range of 
> >> ideas. If you are interested in participating in the discussions, 
> >> please reply to this mail by *EOD 11 July 2003*.  Feel free to pass 
> >> this invitation along to other potential participants, either in your 
> >> company or elsewhere.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Note that in order to attend, the attached legal agreement MUST be 
> >> signed by each attendee.
> >>  
> >>
> >> Thank you and we look forward to seeing you soon.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Colleen Evans
> >>
> >> XML Web Services Standards
> >> Microsoft Corporation
> >> 303 791-3090 or 425 703-9066
> >> Mobile: 720 480-3919
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> You may leave a Technical Committee at any time by visiting 
> >> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsrm/members/leave_workgroup.php
> >
> >
> >
> > You may leave a Technical Committee at any time by visiting 
> > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsrm/members/leave_workgroup.php
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Tom Rutt		email: tom@coastin.com; trutt@fsw.fujitsu.com
> Tel: +1 732 801 5744          Fax: +1 732 774 5133
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You may leave a Technical Committee at any time by visiting http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsrm/members/leave_workgroup.php
> 



Alan Weissberger
2013 Acacia Ct
Santa Clara, CA 95050-3482
1 408 863 6042 voice
1 408 863 6099 fax



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