RE: [wsrm] [REL-XX]Proposal for POLL RM-Reply Pattern

[<Szabolcs.Payrits@nokia.com>]

		Hi,
 
 Unfortunately I have to answer in short due to lack of time, I apologize beforehand. 
There are some point I don't agree in Sunil's mail and I have my own concerns with Poll operation in Header.

> "If this Poll request has to be sent in the SOAP Body, then it has to be defined in the WSDL unlike in the Header case."

I am not sure. Where is it written, that you HAVE TO define in WSDL the SOAP operations that are in soap:Body? Where is it written that this is not mandatory if you put the operation in the header?
What makes the difference here?

My concern: Combination of Poll operation and Application-level operations. There are two possbilities:
 1. You don't combine them => same XML elements in the Header and Body case, only difference is that you pick out of the <soap:Body> or from the <soap:Header> element. Why would it bother you if the specification would leave you the option of NOT putting the operation into the WSDL, if it is a problem for you. Maybe there are WSDL-level problems, but you shouldn't care if you don't want to publish the poll operation in WSDL.
 2. you combine them => how do you handle two differnt MEPs in the same tranport-level entity (HTTP transaction). How do you define the "state machine" that is associated with MEPs? What if one fails, other succedes? What if both fails?

> "Looks odd. All other RM operations are expressed in Headers."

It depends. I think that is what common sense requires.
Other functionalities (I don't call them operations) of WSRM are supplementary functions, and are closely associated with the payload. This one is different, it has nothing to do with the actual payload.
I imagine SOAP headers similar to XML attributes: they tell something about the actual operation. They are not operations themselves.

> "Generally speaking Body contents are meant for end applications"

I could agree with you, if we would not have decided at the first f2f that SOAP intermediaries are out of question. The consequence of leaving out intermediaries is that you don't differentiate on the SOAP level between "end application" and "WSRM". Yes, if there WERE SOAP intermediaries, then this operation  should be addressed to that intermediary in a way or another, and there would be a problem to solve. But there aren't. 

> "Most of us (at least all the Interop participants used some sort of Handlers) will be using Handlers for the RMP implementation. JAX-RPC Handlers are meant to be triggered based on certain Header"

Altough general implementation implication must be taken into account, my belief is that tailoring the specifications to specific proto-implementations is a bad specification practice. Especially to tailor to specific tools used for the protos. 

> "Piggybacking will be prohibited."

 Why ?

> "There is nothing wrong in sending operations in SOAP Headers.
a.       It won't be re-inventing a new MEP, as MEPs deal with Senders & Receivers and not Body or Header. The current proposal still constitutes the R-R MEP."

 Right, but if you put it into the Body, then the MEP is handled by the SOAP library (whatever SOAP library you are using). In the latter case, you have to implement the state machine associated with the R-R MEP. And if you enable the combination of poll operation and application-level operation, then you will also have to find out how tho handle two MEPs at the same time.  I would prevent combining the Application MEP and poll MEPs.

I repeat this latest argument, because that is my major problem. 

The other issue is secondary to me: if the difference is REALLY only the place of the XML element, and otherwise everything is the EXACTLY the same, then it is just a matter of taste, and maybe question of tools used in protos (altough I still think this latter is not a valid argument).

	Best regards,
		Szabolcs


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Sunil Kunisetty [mailto:sunil.kunisetty@oracle.com]
> Sent: October 07,2003 19:34
> To: wsrm@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [wsrm] [REL-XX]Proposal for POLL RM-Reply Pattern
> 
> 
> 
>  All,
> 
>  Attached is my document with my comments and requirements list.
> 
>  -Sunil
>