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Subject: RE: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)

Title: Message
While this is true (and I'm generally a big fan of integrating with existing systems), supporting HTML doesn't seem like the big barrier to supporting JSP and Perl scripts.  The big problem with that, it seems, is that we've committed ourselves to the SOAP web services world.  Rewriting a web app to be a web service is decidely non-trivial; you can lose out on a lot of things that J2EE server and IIS give you for free (session management being a huge one), and fitting in with the web service programming paradigms is very different than writing a web app page.
As a sidenote, I have to admit that sometimes I get frustrated that we are trying to solve a lot of problems that have already been solved with standard web app development tools.  Session management, authentication, privacy, efficient caching, and other issues are all fairly well understood using the basic HTML/HTTP solution, and I feel like we're rewriting a lot of that.  Not only is it a lot of work, it will be hard for us to document and for developers to learn.  Does anyone else sometimes feel this way, or am I the only one?
That all being said, I think that we have to support HTML if only for the huge amount of developer knowledge of HTML (vs. XHTML).
-----Original Message-----
From: Eilon Reshef [mailto:eilon.reshef@webcollage.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 8:58 AM
To: 'PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)'; 'Thomas Schaeck'; 'Takao Mohri'
Cc: 'WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)'
Subject: RE: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)

I do believe we have to offer a migration path for people that have or even prefer plain old HTML - expecting everybody to go back to their Perl scripts and JSP templates and rework them might provide a barrier to entry that we can avoid by simply supporting HTML.
-----Original Message-----
From: PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2) [mailto:gregory_pavlik@hp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 11:48 AM
To: 'Thomas Schaeck'; Takao Mohri
Cc: PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2); WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)

Is there a general statement on whether the markup subcommittee intends to
treat HTML and XHTML interchangeably? My initial thought was that WSRP would
do better to standardize on XHTML, which would have a number of advantages
including the ability of the consumer to treat the fragment as an XML
fragment. It's not terribly difficult to tidy up a piece of HTML and
repurpose it as well-formed/valid XHTML when dealing with legacy content. An
early focus on XHTML might position us better for dealing with devices in
the long run, as it appears that WML and cHTML are going to be secondary
targets for the TC.


-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Schaeck [mailto:SCHAECK@de.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 5:43 PM
To: Takao Mohri
Cc: PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2); WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)

There is not something like "the markup language of WSRP", the WSRP
protocol needs not to be tied to any particular markup language, the
protocol and the markup exchanged can be viewed as orthogonal.

However, WSRP will need to define rules for valid markup fragments and
common styles with the priorities
1. (X)HTML
2. WML, cHTML, VoiceXML...

It would be interesting to see the rules that would define valid XHTML
Basic fragments.

Takao, could you post an XHTML Basic example document to the mailing list
and an outline of fragment rules for XHTML Basic ? Which tags would be
allowed in aggregatable XHTML Basic fragments and which tags would not be
allowed to use in fragments ?

Best regards,


Takao Mohri <mohri.takao@jp.fujitsu.com> on 04/09/2002 01:26:58 PM

Please respond to Takao Mohri <mohri.takao@jp.fujitsu.com>

To:    "PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)" <gregory_pavlik@hp.com>
cc:    "WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)" <wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject:    Re: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)


Yes, as you mentioned, XHTML Basic is becoming a standard for cellular
In WAP 2.0, XHTML Mobile Profile (an extention of XHTML Basic) is a
standard markup language. In Japan, cellular phones that support WAP 2.0
are already on sale by KDDI. NTT Docomo also has announced support of WAP
In the near future, WAP 2.0, i.e, XTHML Basic will be used by many mobile

If the markup language of WSRP is based on XHTML Basic,
it makes support of mobile devices much easier.


"PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)" wrote:
> Gino,
> Could you clarify if your intent is to consider XHMTL/XHTML Basic as a
> of the HTML focus? This wasn't clear from the notes. There appears to be
> broad convergence in the mobile space, both with respect to WML and NTT
> Docomo, to standardizing on XHTML Basic + CSS. XHTML is going to be here
> the device very soon, perhaps quicker than on the desktop, making this a
> relatively high priority item. Fujitsu may have some comments on this as
> well.
> Greg
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gino Filicetti [mailto:gfilicetti@bowstreet.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 3:22 PM
> To: WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)
> Subject: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)
> Team,
> Attached are the meeting notes from today's Markup Subcommittee meeting.
> Comments and suggestions are welcome.
> One thing I did notice was that there were quite a few participants today
> that aren't on the actual list of official members for this team. Since
> team is quite small, I think it'd be great if we could get some of you to
> officially join and help out with the effort. Unfortunately, I wasn't
> to capture the names of ALL the attendees this time around (I'll be sure
> record the con-call next time), but please send me an email so we can add
> your name to official list and flesh out the team a little more.
> Currently, the official list is:
> Gino Filicetti
> David Taieb
> Khurram Mahmood
> Susan Levine
> Michael Hillerman
> Thanks,
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Gino Filicetti | Software Engineer
> One Harbour Place, Portsmouth, NH 03801
> T 603.559.1692 | gfilicetti@bowstreet.com
> w w w . b o w s t r e e t . c o m
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
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// Takao MOHRI (mohri.takao@jp.fujitsu.com)

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