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Subject: RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] agenda for Tuesday 11June



Kirk -

sorry, the typo you mentioned should be as you say.

However, sharing of B accross sessions can be done without modifications,
just pass the appropriate session handle.


Best regards
Carsten Leue

-------
Dr. Carsten Leue
Dept.8288, IBM Laboratory B÷blingen , Germany
Tel.: +49-7031-16-4603, Fax: +49-7031-16-4401



|---------+---------------------------->
|         |           "Wilson, Kirk"   |
|         |           <Kirk.Wilson@ca.c|
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|         |           Please respond to|
|         |           "Wilson, Kirk"   |
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  |       To:       Carsten Leue/Germany/IBM@IBMDE, Gil Tayar <Gil.Tayar@webcollage.com>                                                        |
  |       cc:       "'wsia@lists.oasis-open.org'" <wsia@lists.oasis-open.org>, "'wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org'" <wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>        |
  |       Subject:  RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] agenda for Tuesday                    11 June                                |
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I assume that the second "B" in "A,B and C,B share sessions" is a typo.
Shouldn't it be "A,B, and C,D share sessions" based upon the code?  More
interesting would be sharing the persistent entity B across sessions, but
it looks like that would take some manipulation of h, would it?


Kirk Wilson
Computer Associates
Manager (Aion)
Tele: 603-823-4023
Fax:  603-823-4025
mailto:kirk.wilson@ca.com





-----Original Message-----
From: Carsten Leue [mailto:CLEUE@de.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 8:16 AM
To: Gil Tayar
Cc: 'wsia@lists.oasis-open.org'; 'wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org'
Subject: RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] agenda for
Tuesday 11 June





Comment in [CL]





Best regards
Carsten Leue


-------
Dr. Carsten Leue
Dept.8288, IBM Laboratory B÷blingen , Germany
Tel.: +49-7031-16-4603, Fax: +49-7031-16-4401






|---------+---------------------------->
|         |           Gil Tayar        |
|         |           <Gil.Tayar@webcol|
|         |           lage.com>        |
|         |                            |
|         |           06/11/2002 12:09 |
|         |           PM               |
|         |           Please respond to|
|         |           Gil Tayar        |
|         |                            |
|---------+---------------------------->
  >
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|


  |
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  |       To:       Carsten Leue/Germany/IBM@IBMDE
|


  |       cc:       "'wsia@lists.oasis-open.org'"
<wsia@lists.oasis-open.org>, "'wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org'"
<wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>        |


  |       Subject:  RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] agenda
for Tuesday              11 June                                      |


  |
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  |
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  >
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Comments below, under <GT>


-----Original Message-----
From: Carsten Leue [mailto:CLEUE@de.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 11:19
To: Gil Tayar
Cc: thomas klein6; 'wsia@lists.oasis-open.org';
'wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org'
Subject: RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] agenda for
Tuesday 11 June






Gil -


1-3: the consumer MUST explicitly create entities (transient or
persistent). It can decide to create sessions explicitly if it wants to
share them amongs entities, otherwise it can let the producer create
sessions on the fly.
<GT>
OK. The question is, what sequence of APIs makes the Consumer share
sessions
among entities?
Is the answer -
createSession (once),
createTransient/PersistentEntity (multiple times),
getFragment(session (one), entity (multiple)) [for each of the entities]?


</GT>


[CL] it should be programmed like this given that portlets A,B,C,D are on a

page, A,B and C,B share sessions


id c = registerConsumer(null,...);
handle[] h = createPersistentEntities(
      {c,c,c,c},
      {"portletA","portletB","portletC","portletD"},
      {...,...,...,...});
id s1 = createSession(),
   s2 = createSession();


getFragments(
      h,
      {s1,s1,s2,s2},
      ...
);


[CL]


4: the decision to have multiple entities per session is up to the consumer

who make this choice based on the producer's metadata. e.g think of
portlets that form a shop together. These would want to share a session
with each other. But the consumer could decide to have two shops of the
same type on the same page. Then there would be two sessions and only the
consumer could know what portlet shares what session.
<GT>
How does the Producer indicate that they need a sharing of sessions? Is
this
indicated in the document? Is a Producer a container of services (ala
Mike's
notion), or is it one service?
</GT>


[CL]
The idea was that the producer indicates session sharing capabilities
through its metadata (e.g. by defining categories, etc). However this has
not been detailed yet.
The producer itself is a container of services.
[CL]





5: The consumer should create a session before issuing a getFragment call.
The entity is created whenever necessary.
6: A Session is a bucket that holds some data (physically on the provider)
and times-out after a while. A transient entity is a remote portlet that
does not store any data in a DB.


Hope that helped.


Best regards
Carsten Leue


-------
Dr. Carsten Leue
Dept.8288, IBM Laboratory B÷blingen , Germany
Tel.: +49-7031-16-4603, Fax: +49-7031-16-4401






|---------+---------------------------->
|         |           Gil Tayar        |
|         |           <Gil.Tayar@webcol|
|         |           lage.com>        |
|         |                            |
|         |           06/11/2002 09:28 |
|         |           AM               |
|         |           Please respond to|
|         |           Gil Tayar        |
|         |                            |
|---------+---------------------------->


>
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  |
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  |       To:       Carsten Leue/Germany/IBM@IBMDE
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  |       cc:       "'wsia@lists.oasis-open.org'"
<wsia@lists.oasis-open.org>, "'wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org'"
<wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>, Thomas|
  |        Klein6/Germany/IBM@IBMDE
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  |       Subject:  RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] agenda
for Tuesday        11 June                                            |
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>
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Carsten, could you clarify some things for me?


1. If sessions and entities are orthogonal, what SHOULD the Consumer do?
2. SHOULD it create a transient entity _and_ a session?
3. MUST it do so?
4. Who gets to decide whether there are multiple entities per session or
multiple sessions per entities?
5. When SHOULD a Consumer create a session and when a transient entity?
6. What _is_ a session, logically? What _is_ a transient entity?


Gil


-----Original Message-----
From: Carsten Leue [mailto:CLEUE@de.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 08:45
To: Alan Kropp
Cc: 'wsia@lists.oasis-open.org'; 'wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org'; thomas
klein6
Subject: Re: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] agenda for
Tuesday 11 June






Alan - some first thoughts


1. the general concept is that entities (transient or persistent) and
sessions are orthogonal. There might be mulitple entities per session and
(at least for persistent entities) multiple sessions per entity. An example

for the first case would be that entities share session data within  the
same user request. An example for the second case are portlets on a common
page (group page) that are access simultaneously by multiple users.
A transient entity differs from a persistent entity in that its data does
not persist and its lifecycle is coupled with the session life cycle.


2. Eilon pointed out in a comment to the interface proposal that batch
processing is already part of SOAP. I was not aware of that and will look
it up until the call.





Best regards
Carsten Leue


-------
Dr. Carsten Leue
Dept.8288, IBM Laboratory B÷blingen , Germany
Tel.: +49-7031-16-4603, Fax: +49-7031-16-4401






|---------+---------------------------->
|         |           Alan Kropp       |
|         |           <akropp@epicentri|
|         |           c.com>           |
|         |                            |
|         |           06/11/2002 01:54 |
|         |           AM               |
|         |           Please respond to|
|         |           Alan Kropp       |
|         |                            |
|---------+---------------------------->


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  |       To:       "'wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org'"
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<wsia@lists.oasis-open.org>        |
  |       cc:
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  |       Subject:  [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] agenda for
Tuesday 11  June                                                      |
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I think we'll have plenty of discussion around the merged document Rich and

Carsten put together.


The two main issues I see that have arisen on the email lists are:


1.  What is the difference between transient entities and sessions, and is
there enough of a distinction to warrant including both in the
specification?


2.  There are efficiency concerns around the use of arrays in the method
signatures, basically to enable batched requests for network efficiency.





Call-in numbers:
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Alan





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