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Subject: RE: [wsrp] [WSRP-IMPL] Thoughts on WSRP Open Source Implementatation...


for this activity most likely tomcat 4.0.4

-----Original Message-----
From: Carsten Leue [mailto:CLEUE@de.ibm.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 10:58 AM
To: jbroberg@novell.com
Cc: Alan Kropp; larry_cable@yahoo.com; 'Michael Freedman'; 'Thomas
Schaeck'; wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [wsrp] [WSRP-IMPL] Thoughts on WSRP Open Source
Implementatat ion...



What platform?


Best regards
Carsten Leue

-------
Dr. Carsten Leue
Dept.8288, IBM Laboratory B÷blingen , Germany
Tel.: +49-7031-16-4603, Fax: +49-7031-16-4401



|---------+---------------------------->
|         |           Jeff Broberg     |
|         |           <jbroberg@novell.|
|         |           com>             |
|         |                            |
|         |           08/21/2002 03:59 |
|         |           PM               |
|         |           Please respond to|
|         |           jbroberg         |
|---------+---------------------------->

>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------|
  |
|
  |       To:       larry_cable@yahoo.com, Alan Kropp
<akropp@epicentric.com>, Thomas Schaeck/Germany/IBM@IBMDE, "'Michael
|
  |        Freedman'" <Michael.Freedman@oracle.com>
|
  |       cc:       wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org
|
  |       Subject:  RE: [wsrp] [WSRP-IMPL] Thoughts on WSRP Open Source
Implementatat ion...                                      |
  |
|
  |
|

>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------|



We are planning on having a clean room implementation and would participate
in the creation on the compliance suite.

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Cable [mailto:larry_cable@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 7:53 AM
To: Alan Kropp; 'Thomas Schaeck'; 'Michael Freedman'
Cc: 'wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org'
Subject: RE: [wsrp] [WSRP-IMPL] Thoughts on WSRP Open Source
Implementatat ion...



--- Alan Kropp <akropp@epicentric.com> wrote:
> I agree with Thomas.  I believe there are precedents
> for the spec
> implementors also being the compliance suite
> implementors.
> In JSR 168, and in fact all JSRs, the spec lead (who
> almost
> always implements the spec) is also in charge of the
> compliance
> suite.
>
> Given that, can we find a way of sharing the
> compliance suite
> implementation across a few TC members, whether or
> not they are
> also implementing the spec?
>
> Besides the implementation of the compliance suite,
> there are
> other issues, that the TC needs to decide on, such
> as:
> * The process for the TC to validate that the
> compliance suite
>   is in fact correct

would there be any value in creating a compliance
test suite definition; essentially a document that
catalogs (apriori) the set of conformance tests; what
they test, "how", and what the conformant result(s)
would be?

Although this is certainly "unusual" this could be
valuable; it could either be a separate document
or "inline" conformance statements in the spec itself
as long as they did not significantly impact the
readability of the spec itself.

Rgds

- Larry Cable

> * Are there any penalties for failing the suite, or
> benefits for
>   passing?
> * Do companies administer the test on themselves?
> If it is the
>   honor system, what exactly are we expecting to get
> out of it?
> * If it's not the honor system, what's the process
> for
>   administering the test:  does anyone in specific
> administer it,
>   how do you schedule a time to do it, do you have
> to bring any
>   hardware/software to a certain place.  This would
> mean there's
>   an ongoing cost to maintaining a compliance
> program, and are
>   there TC members willing to shoulder it?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Schaeck [mailto:SCHAECK@de.ibm.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 4:30 AM
> To: Michael Freedman
> Cc: wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [wsrp] [WSRP-IMPL] Thoughts on WSRP
> Open Source
> Implementatat ion...
>
>
>
> I think that while the validation compliance suite
> should be done by
> different people, it dosn't necessarily mean
> different companies.
>
> It would be ok if some companies have teams working
> for implementations for
> their products and contribute different people, e.g.
> from their QA
> departments to the compliance suite.
>
> Since IBM is already providing significant resources
> for editing the spec
> and providing a free implementation it would be good
> if other companies
> contribute resources to work on the compliance
> suite.
>
> One thing we should also consider is something like
> a "plug fest" (hope
> that's the proper term), i.e. a meeting where
> different companies bring
> servers with their portals and WSRP producers and we
> test that they work
> together properly.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Thomas
>
>
> Michael Freedman <Michael.Freedman@oracle.com> on
> 08/17/2002 08:52:35 PM
>
> To:
> cc:    wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject:    Re: [wsrp] [WSRP-IMPL] Thoughts on WSRP
> Open Source
>        Implementatat    ion...
>
>
>
> We should try and find out if there are sufficient
> members of the TC
> willing to
> work on this that aren't also tainted.  We are in
> the same position as IBM
> in
> that we are beginning early implementations hence
> need to disqualify
> ourselves
> as well.  Who out there isn't planning on
> implementing a WSRP
> producer/container over the next 4-6 months and
> would be willing to work on
> on
> a validation/compliance suite?
>
> As for calling the Apache work a "reference
> implementation"  I think we
> need to
> be careful.  WSRP has a variety of usage patterns --
> one of which seems to
> be
> the target of this implementation.  As "reference
> implementations" often
> define/imply a coded version of the specification
> i.e. the code defines the
> spec particularly where the spec is unclear -- it
> seems inappropriate in
> this
> situation.  Would "sample implementation" be a
> better term?
>    -Mike-
>
>
> Alan Kropp wrote:
>
> > Thomas and Mike,
> >
> > Yes, a validation/compliance suite will be of
> great importance.  It seems
> > like a good idea from the perspective of both
> prospective WSRP portlet
> > writers and consumers as well.
> >
> > I agree with Thomas that the validation suite
> should be undertaken by a
> > different group of developers than the reference
> implementation.  It
> should
> > not be open source, but instead be an effort of
> members of the TC, who
> are
> > in the best position to make the determination as
> to what it means to be
> in
> > compliance with the WSRP spec.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Thomas Schaeck [mailto:SCHAECK@de.ibm.com]
> > Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 4:51 AM
> > To: Michael Freedman
> > Cc: wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: Re: [wsrp] [WSRP-IMPL] Thoughts on WSRP
> Open Source
> > Implementatation ...
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > you've got a very good point - a validation suite
> is definitively very
> > important. I think this is the best way to ensure
> standards compliance
> and
> > interoperability of the various products that will
> support WSRP.
> >
> > One thing we'll need to discuss is whether the
> validation suite and the
> > WSRP Producer platform should be in the scope of
> the same open source
> > project or an independent, entirely separate
> project. I would tend to the
> > latter which of course would not mean that it
> could not also be open
> > source.
> >
> > Regarding who should do the validation suite, I
> think it should not be
> the
> > same team that is doing the reference
> implementation, otherwise there is
> a
> > big risk that the same bugs would be made on both
> sides of the
> protocol...
> > I would actually propose that an entirely
> separate, independent team,
> > produces the validation suite. (This is like it is
> done for the JSR 168,
> > for example).
> >
> > Then the reference implementation like any product
> can be validated
> against
>
=== message truncated ===


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