[xacml] XACML June 27, 2002 Minutes

[Ken Yagen <kyagen@crosslogix.com>]

Title: XACML Conference Call Minutes

XACML Conference Call

Date:  Thursday, June 27, 2002

Time: 10:00 AM EDT

Tel: 512-225-3050 Access Code: 65998

 

Summary

Outstanding action items were reviewed and Tim gave an overview of the F2F progress. He outlined the three proposals in place for typing and the committee is waiting on Daniel to write up his proposal. There is a vote set for 7/8 to decide this. Some discussion on SAML changes was held. Michiharu is working on a SAML transformation. Hierarchies in request caused some discussion as this was something SAML had considered and voted down. Tim brought up MathML and has converted it into an XML schema that can be read by XACML schema. He will send it out to the list. There was agreement that we only would require a small subset of MathML and some discussion over whether we should reference MathML or absorb the parts we need. The next F2F was decided on to be a 3 day event outside Boston at the Hitachi facilities on 7/30 - 8/1. The objective will be to wrap up the specification. Don will be posting details of hotels, directions, etc.

 

Action Items

1. Ernesto to send to Anne non-normative examples of policy signatures after exams complete.
2. Ken to send out updated issues list in next week.
3. Anne to put together single, concise example by 7/11
4. Carlisle/Tim to release new schema by Mon/Tues of next week (7/2)
5. Tim to release v15 of spec by 7/12
6. Tim - first draft of Access Control background due 7/19. Will send out nine points to list first.
7. Anne and Michiharu to send reference material to Tim
8. All to review Tim's list of nine areas and if aware of any background material that can collect up and comment on, send it to Tim
9. Set new due date for XACML primer from Hal and Konstantin. To start no later than 7/12 (v15 publish date)
10. Hal to propose something for section 6 of spec early in week of 7/8 so that it can be incorporated into v15.
11. Daniel to post his proposal for typing to list by Friday 6/28
12. Don to send out logistic details for F2F
13. Ken to concatenate minutes from F2F and post to list (with Michiharu's amendment on advice)
14. Carlisle to contact Ernesto and Pierangela regarding their level of participation in the committee
15. Tim to Post MathML schema conversion.

 

Action Items on Hold

1. Resolve IP issues with IBM. On hold waiting on OASIS to discuss IP issues with IBM in 1 to 1 ˝ weeks.
2. Anne to go over request context with Eve Maler to see which parts make sense to fold into SAML after finalizing of SAML issue list. On hold, waiting for context issues to be resolved.

 

 

Votes

Motion to accept minutes from F2F approved

Motion to accept minutes of 6/13 approved.

Motion to have next F2F (7/30-8/1) at Hitachi outside Boston approved.

 

Proposed Agenda:

10:00-10:05 Roll Call and Agenda Review

10:05-10:10 Vote to accept minutes of June 19-20 F2F meeting

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200206/msg00056.html

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200206/msg00059.html 

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200206/msg00063.html 

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200206/msg00065.html 

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200206/msg00068.html 

(see also  http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200206/msg00059.html )

10:10-10:15 Review of Action Items (see 6/20 teleconference minutes)

10:15-10:30 Summary of last week's F2F meeting (Bill, Tim)

10:30-10:40 Next F2F discussion:  date, place, agenda (Carlisle)

10:40-10:45 Next teleconference:  July 4 or July 11? (Carlisle)

10:45-11:00 Any other business

 

 

Roll Call

Simon Godik, Self

Ken Yagen, Crosslogix

Hal Lockhart, Entegrity

Carlisle Adams, Entrust

Tim Moses, Entrust

Don Flinn, Hitachi

Konstantin Beznosov, Hitachi

Michiharu Kudoh, IBM

Bill Parducci, Self

Anne Anderson, Sun Microsystems

Gerald Brose, Xtradyne

 

Raw Minutes (taken by Ken Yagen)

Hal - For courtesy of those reading archive, ask Ken to concatenate them and post back to list.

Tim - Did people find them useful posting the minutes periodically during the F2F?

Some consensus of yes

Carlisle - Need to contact Milan folks as they have not been active for a while. Will send them an email today.

Ken asked to add vote to accept minutes of June 13 meeting

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200206/msg00055.html

 

Michiharu - Minutes from Thursday PM discussion, does not say advice is optional.

Wed Morning Minutes - Attribute Designator - says might need a different name

Anne - Talked about Attribute Selector when used in the policy. When used in the policy is different from SAML definition.

Ken - will add word optional in concatenated minutes

 

Motion to accept minutes from F2F approved

Motion to accept minutes of 6/13 approved.

 

Action Items

1. Ernesto to send to Anne non-normative examples of policy signatures after exams complete.

Anne - Not heard from Ernesto

2. Ken to send out updated issues list in next week.

Ken - Not done yet. Will get out in next few days. Trying to clean up old issues to shorten doc.

3. Anne needs one more week to put together single, concise example

Made progress, but will need two more weeks (7/11)

4. Carlisle/Simon to release version 15 of spec in ~ 10 days.

Carlisle - Suggestion that new updated schema at beginning of next week (Mon/Tues), then take 1 to 1 ˝ weeks to make v15 consistent with new schema - by 7/11 teleconference.

Tim - Requires vote on typing first - scheduled for the 7/8, so 7/12 is earliest

Objective - 7/12 release of v15

5. Tim - first draft of Access Control background due 7/19

Tim - Some initial text with nine subject areas want to site background material. Started collecting survey papers that cover back to early 90's and some 80's. Would like to record some initial references and then carve up nine points among 3-4 people to track down appropriate references and provide text on the points.

Tim - Will send out points to the list. There is a small subgroup working on it.

Anne - Pulled some info from ACM archives; will send it to Tim

Michiharu - have a paper I can send you.

Anne - Talked to Joe Pato. A patent lawyer looked at them. Not a concern, probably don't affect XACML.

Action Item to review Tim's list of nine areas and if aware of any background material that can collect up and comment on, send it to Tim

6. Set new due date for XACML primer from Hal and Konstantin

Hal - Should plan to start no later than after v15 published

7. Hal to take over section 6 of specification. Hal agreed to propose something for section 6 regardless of XrML.

Hal - Want to propose something early in week of 7/8 so can be incorporated in v15

8. Examples to be created and posted to list showing useful split of schema

Tim - Has to do with split off of separate functions and predicates. Idea is don't want that in main body of schema. Been some discussion also of deleting schema from spec. If have 30-40 pages of type definitions, do not want to have it appear in spec.

Anne - Daniel was asked to explain merits of his proposal and provide examples.

Tim - Daniel proposes they should be in XML instances rather than schema.

Tim - This is pending outcome of vote on types on 7/8

Michiharu - Xpath has two schemas - datatypes/functions and core schema.

Carlisle - no discussion on lists. Perhaps people waiting on Daniel's proposal.

9. Tentative planning of final F2F at end of July (week of 22^nd or 29^th)

Later

 

Action Items on Hold

10. Resolve IP issues with IBM. On hold waiting on OASIS to discuss IP issues with IBM in 1 to 1 ˝ weeks.
11. Anne to go over request context with Eve Maler to see which parts make sense to fold into SAML after finalizing of SAML issue list. On hold, waiting for context issues to be resolved.

 

10:34 Summary of last week's F2F

Tim - devoted 50/50 to context and typing

Context - Change to allow multiple responses as well as hierarchal resources and queries about hierarchal resources. Does request apply to node, node and subordinates or whole subtree. Changes reflected in context schema 2d

Typing - How to enforce strong typing in functions and predicates. 3 views:

1. Existing Text - don't need different functions for each legal data types
2. Simon - Should have different function type for each legal data types
3. Daniel - Different function types for each legal data type but not in XML Schema - XML instances instead

Decided that should allow wider committee to discuss and vote on the topic

 

Carlisle - Assume hierarchal resources will require change in SAML

Tim - Have not addressed SAML profile. Michiharu took action to provide some text on SAML profile.

Michiharu - currently SAML allows to have multiple authz assertions in SAML response but does not allow multiple resources.

Hal - Was a deliberate decision and debate in SAML. Maybe a new authz decision request type with our context should be proposed.

Michiharu - Need to create SAML transformation from XACML context and would appreciate help.

Hal - May be argument for a form of wildcarding (all contents of a container), having the same policy apply to container and contents of container will rarely be useful and has risk.

Carlisle - How are you defining the container?

Bill - query would specify one of three things

Hal - Argued successfully at SAML that asking questions about multiple resources is a form of policy distribution which is not what SAML is about. Concern is engines in some of products need to do a fresh policy calculation and people might start caching results which has risk.

Simon - more general than just XML access control. Also in J2SE.

Hal - Don't object to hierarchal notion in the policy, but in the request.

Hal - would be nice to see a clear statement of pros/cons of three options

Carlisle - waiting on Daniel to articulate 3^rd option.

 

Tim - Have figured out how to import MathML DTD into XACML

Tim - Take MathML, convert to Schema and edit it down (only need about 5%)

 

10:57 Next F2F

Carlisle - Anne and Don have offered to host. Looking at 7/30 - 8/1 hosted by Hitachi/Quadrasis facilities in Boston.

Email responses - 5 preferred Boston, 2 Ottawa, 1 no preference.

Primary objective is to wrap up the specification. Our track is to submit by 9/1 and this gives time to do implementation in August.

 

Motion approved to have next F2F 7/30 - 8/1 (Tues-Thurs) at Hitachi facilities in Boston area.

 

we will cancel the 7/4 meeting, so next TC call will be on 7/11

 

Action item for Don to post details to the list on F2F logistics

 

10:05 Motion to adjourn