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Subject: FW: glossary acronym comments




JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD
President
Comtech Services, Inc.
710 Kipling Street, Suite 400
Denver, CO 80215
303-232-7586
joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com
joannhackos Skype
www.comtech-serv.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Kara Warburton [mailto:KARA@CA.IBM.COM] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 7:45 AM
To: JoAnn Hackos
Cc: azydron@xml-intl.com
Subject: glossary acronym comments
Importance: High

JoAnn, Andrzej,

Hopefully you will get this note before today's meeting. Yesterday's
meeting was very  informative and I appreciate your input.

On the subsequent call I had with Robert and Erik, we discussed the
current
limitation (if you want to call it a limitation, I realize it has its
purpose) in CAT tools whereby a translator would be dealing with a DITA
glossary file that was "fixed" in structure according to how the author
prepared it. So for example in an English entry an author may have
indicated an acronym such as "ping" as having a "preferred" status value
and the translator would receive this value for the target language
entry
too and not be able to change it. Such is yet another reason why DITA is
not a suitable format for "terminology management" which has to be
flexible
for all languages.

No matter how we structure glossary entries, we will have to deal with
this
limitation.... inflexibility of entry structure for different languages.
Of
course, its not an inherent DITA limitation, just a tools one, so if the
tools should advance some day maybe it will go away.

In the meantime, it was mentioned on yesterday's committee call that a
translation "admin" person... someone with admin authority in the CAT
tool,
can override the glossary structure, such as to remove the "preferred"
value that an author has added to an acronym. This again points to the
industry best practice that glossary files should be handled as part of
the
project management.... in IBM we pre-translate them at an administrative
level so that we can make language-specific adjustments. I've been
preaching that practice for a few years and its beginning to be
recognized,
but of course it is still not the norm to do this. We should however
explain these things in a best practices document.

Thus I also suggested that we really must keep the glossary markup to a
minimum, making only those data elements available that are critical or
necessary for authoring and translation and already identified processes
and users, such as the part of speech and status value required for
downstream processes and controlled authoring, both of which along with
all
the other introduced elements are optional.

I think the changes made as a result of yesterday's meeting have
improved
the proposal.... I was never entirely comfortable with putting acronyms
and
abbreviations as "headwords" of a glossary entry, and as you pointed out
that would not be intuitive for translators.

See you in a bit..

Kara Warburton
IBM Terminology
905-413-2170

IBM Intranet links:
Terminology WIKI: https://w3.webahead.ibm.com/w3ki/display/IBMterm/Home
IBM terminology: http://w3.ibm.com/standards/terminology
Terminology blog: http://blogs.tap.ibm.com/weblogs/page/kara@ca.ibm.com


 

             "JoAnn Hackos"

             <joann.hackos@com

             tech-serv.com>
To 
 
<dita-translation@lists.oasis-open. 
             20/01/2008 06:40          org>

             PM
cc 
                                       <bhertz@sdl.com>, "Bryan
Schnabel"  
                                       <bryan.s.schnabel@tek.com>,

                                       <charles_pau@us.ibm.com>,

                                       <christian.lieske@sap.com>,

                                       <dpooley@sdl.com>,

                                       <esrig-ia@esrig.com>,

                                       <fsasaki@w3.org>,

                                       <rfletcher@sdl.com>,

                                       "Howard.Schwartz"

                                       <Howard.Schwartz@trados.com>,

                                       <ishida@w3.org>,

                                       <rmraya@maxprograms.com>,

 
<tony.jewtushenko@productinnovator. 
                                       com>, Kara

                                       Warburton/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA,

                                       <ysavourel@translate.com>

 
Subject 
                                       [dita-translation] OASIS DITA

                                       Translation Subcommittee Agenda
--  
                                       21 January 2008

 

 

 

 

 

 






Hello Translation SC Members,

We have a very important meeting scheduled for Monday 21 January. Please
everyone try to attend.

Please find the agenda on the Subcommittee wiki

http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/TranslationSubcommittee

For observer's, see the Agenda at the end of this email.


We need to discuss the integrated Glossary/Terminology and Acronym
proposals.

Original acronym proposal

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/26361/IssueNumbe12038.
html

I have enclosed Robert Anderson's comparison of the integrated proposal
markup and the original acronym proposal markup.

Here is the link:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita-translation/email/arch
ives/200801/msg00007.html

I would like to recommend two changes;

Erik's proposal
<glossentry id="wmd">
  <glossAcronym>WMD</glossAcronym>
  <glossBody>
    <glossSurfaceForm>Weapons of
        Mass Destruction (WMD)</glossSurfaceForm>
    <glossAlt><glossFullForm>Weapons of Mass
       Destruction</glossFullForm></glossAlt>
  </glossBody>
</glossentry>
Recommended changes: Change FullForm to ExpandedForm
Remove the <glossAlt> enclosing markup to avoid too many layers of
markup

<glossentry id="wmd">
  <glossAcronym>WMD</glossAcronym>
  <glossBody>
    <glossSurfaceForm>Weapons of
        Mass Destruction (WMD)</glossSurfaceForm>
   <glossExpandedForm>Weapons of Mass
       Destruction</glossExpandedForm>
   </glossBody>
</glossentry>
JoAnn


Toll Numbers: USA +1-770-615-1250
Toll-Free Numbers: USA 877-421-0033
Participant Passcode: 610708


ITN: 2-421-0033


In addition, if you are calling from one of these countries, even the
toll-based charges should be lower than standard long distance--use
whatever works from your location:


Country Toll-free (IBM Pays) Toll (Caller Pays)
Austria +43 179576264
Belgium 0800-7-3026 +32 22006114
Denmark 80-888377 +45 38323070
Finland 0800-914-630 +358 972519061
France 0800-902366 +33 157323040 or  +33 157323041
Germany 0800-181-6323 +49 6951709081
Ireland 1800-558728 +353 16569209
Italy 800-788634 +39 0269430413
Netherlands 0800-022-8558 +31 202008077
Norway 800-18373 +47 24159528
Spain 900-95-1089 +34 912754171
Sweden 020-799414 +46 850163259
Switzerland 0800-564-331 +41 44654562
United Kingdom 0808-234-1969 +44 2070260533
USA 877-421-0033 770-615-1250


Agenda for 21 January 2008


8:00-8:05 Roll call PDT 1) Roll Call


2) Approve minutes from previous business meeting:
      Not yet available (19 November 2007 and 7 January 2008)


3) Review open action items


3.1 ACTION: Gershon to investigate whether he can use a client's
samples.
      Gershon will assemble all the examples into the template for the
TC;
      need to add the examples to the Multilanguage Best Practice.
      CONTINUED. Awaiting legal OK; Gershon is selecting items for use
in
      the Best Practice. Decision to submit the BP to the TC for review
      without these items and we'll update them after Gershon gets
approval
      from his client, since it's going to take a while.
      3.2 ACTION: Gershon and Don will present the approved best
practices
      on
            indexing, conrefs, and multilanguage as committee drafts for
            approval by the DITA Technical Committee.
      3.5 ACTION: Rodolfo and Bryan Schnabel will continue to work on
the
      Best Practice for XLIFF
            CONTINUED.


      3.6 ACTION: JoAnn will try writing the sort order addition to the
      indexing
            Best Practice for review. COMPLETED.


      3.7 ACTION: JoAnn will contact Richard Ischida to get
clarification
      on the
            need for a pronunciation element or attribute for the
acronym
            proposal.


            IN PROGRESS -- note sent to Richard. JoAnn raised the issue
at
            the OASIS Symposium with the Accessibility working group
headed
            by Peter Brunet from IBM. They are working on Accessibility
for
            ODF. Suggested that DITA be included in the accessibility
            discussions. No response as yet.


Business:


4.1 Don report on status of the Conref Best Practice at the TC
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita-translation/ See 18
November 2007 document


4.2 Gershon report on the status of the Multilanguage Best Practice
final
format


4.3 JoAnn report on the Indexing Best Practice final format and
revisions


4.4 Review the summary of the glossary and acronym proposals by Robert
Anderson.


http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200712/msg00056.html


http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/download.php/26484/Iss
ueGlossary12026.html

      [browser-ready]


Subcommittee's original proposal
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/26361/IssueNumbe12038.
html
 _


5) New business:


None


8:50-8:55 Announcements/Opens


8:55 Adjourn


JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD
President
Comtech Services, Inc.
710 Kipling Street, Suite 400
Denver CO 80215
303-232-7586
joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com





 (See attached file: acronymproposals.html)
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Title: Acronym markup proposals

Acronym markup proposals

Sample markup from the various proposals

Note:
  • I've tried to line up literal samples from the original and revised acronym proposals. If something is missing or incorrect in either sample, then it is my mistake.
  • The examples below are my attempt to show literal markup differences between current proposals. If an element is not required in one, then it is not required in the other. The reason I put this together was to try to see, side by side, the differences in what a translator or author would see. I've left the xml:lang attribute off of each to simplify things, but readers can assume that it is properly set.
  • I've left a third column open just to point out that the merged proposal is not a final proposal, and if something is missing then the revised proposal should certainly include it.
Table 1. Weapons of Mass Destruction
  Original proposal Erik's merged proposal Revised proposal?
Reference
<abbreviated-form
  conref="acronyms.dita#acronyms/wmd"/>
<abbreviated-form keyref="wmd"/>
 

English target
expanded = glossFullForm
short = glossAcronym
surface-form = glossSurfaceForm

<abbreviated-form id="wmd">
  <expanded>Weapons of Mass Destruction</expanded>
  <short>WMD</short>
  <surface-form>Weapons of 
     Mass Destruction (WMD)</surface-form>
</abbreviated-form>
<glossentry id="wmd">
  <glossAcronym>WMD</glossAcronym>
  <glossBody>
    <glossSurfaceForm>Weapons of 
        Mass Destruction (WMD)</glossSurfaceForm>
    <glossAlt><glossFullForm>Weapons of Mass 
       Destruction</glossFullForm></glossAlt>
  </glossBody>
</glossentry>
 

Translated target
expanded = glossFullForm
short = glossAcronym
surface-form = glossSurfaceForm

<abbreviated-form id="wmd">
  <expanded>armas de destrucción 
     masiva</expanded>
  <short/>
  <surface-form>armas de destrucción 
     masiva</surface-form>
</abbreviated-form>
<glossentry id="wmd">
  <glossAcronym>armas de destrucción 
       masiva</glossAcronym>
  <glossBody>
    <glossSurfaceForm>armas de destrucción 
       masiva</glossSurfaceForm>
    <glossAlt><glossFullForm>armas de 
       destrucción masiva</glossFullForm></glossAlt>
  </glossBody>
</glossentry>
 
Table 2. AIDS
  Original proposal Erik's merged proposal Revised proposal?
Reference
<abbreviated-form
  conref="acronyms.dita#acronyms/aids"/>
<abbreviated-form keyref="aids"/>
 

English target
expanded = glossFullForm
short = glossAcronym
surface-form = glossSurfaceForm

<abbreviated-form id="aids">
  <expanded>acquired immunodeficiency
     syndrome</expanded>
  <short>AIDS</short>
  <surface-form>acquired immunodeficiency
     syndrome (AIDS)</surface-form>
</abbreviated-form>
<glossentry id="aids">
  <glossAcronym>AIDS</glossAcronym>
  <glossBody>
    <glossSurfaceForm>acquired immunodeficiency
      syndrome (AIDS)</glossSurfaceForm>
    <glossAlt><glossFullForm>acquired immunodeficiency
      syndrome</glossFullForm></glossAlt>
  </glossBody>
</glossentry>
 

Translated target
expanded = glossFullForm
short = glossAcronym
surface-form = glossSurfaceForm

<abbreviated-form id="aids">
  <expanded>síndrome de inmuno-deficiencia
     adquirida</expanded>
  <short>SIDA</short>
  <surface-form>síndrome de inmuno-deficiencia
     adquirida (SIDA)</surface-form>
</abbreviated-form>
<glossentry id="aids">
  <glossAcronym>SIDA</glossAcronym>
  <glossBody>
    <glossSurfaceForm>síndrome de
      inmuno-deficiencia adquirida
      (SIDA)</glossSurfaceForm>
    <glossAlt><glossFullForm>síndrome de
      inmuno-deficiencia adquirida</glossFullForm>
    </glossAlt>
  </glossBody>
</glossentry>
 
Table 3. The common file, all together
Original Proposal (English in the first row, Spanish in the next) Merged Proposal (English in the first row, Spanish in the next)
<topic id="acronyms" xml:lang="en">
 <title>Title (ignored)</title>
 <body>
  <section>

   <abbreviated-form id="wmd">
    <expanded>Weapons of Mass Destruction</expanded>
    <short>WMD</short>
    <surface-form>Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD)</surface-form>
   </abbreviated-form>

   <abbreviated-form id="aids">
    <expanded>acquired immunodeficiency syndrome</expanded>
    <short>AIDS</short>
    <surface-form>acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS)</surface-form>
   </abbreviated-form>

  </section>
 </body>
</topic>
<dita xml:lang="en">

 <glossentry id="wmd">
  <glossAcronym>WMD</glossAcronym>
  <glossBody>
   <glossSurfaceForm>Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD)</glossSurfaceForm>
   <glossAlt>
    <glossFullForm>Weapons of Mass Destruction</glossFullForm>
   </glossAlt>
  </glossBody>
 </glossentry>

 <glossentry id="aids">
  <glossAcronym>AIDS</glossAcronym>
  <glossBody>
   <glossSurfaceForm>acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS)</glossSurfaceForm>
   <glossAlt>
    <glossFullForm>acquired immunodeficiency syndrome</glossFullForm>
   </glossAlt>
  </glossBody>
 </glossentry>

</dita>
<topic id="acronyms" xml:lang="es">
 <title>Title (ignored)</title>
 <body>
  <section>

   <abbreviated-form id="wmd">
    <expanded>armas de destrucción masiva</expanded>
    <short/>
    <surface-form>armas de destrucción masiva</surface-form>
   </abbreviated-form>

   <abbreviated-form id="aids">
    <expanded>síndrome de inmuno-deficiencia adquirida</expanded>
    <short>SIDA</short>
    <surface-form>síndrome de inmuno-deficiencia adquirida (SIDA)</surface-form>
   </abbreviated-form>

  </section>
 </body>
</topic>
<dita xml:lang="es">

 <glossentry id="wmd">
  <glossAcronym>armas de destrucción masiva</glossAcronym>
  <glossBody>
   <glossSurfaceForm>armas de destrucción masiva</glossSurfaceForm>
   <glossAlt>
    <glossFullForm>armas de destrucción masiva</glossFullForm>
   </glossAlt>
  </glossBody>
 </glossentry>

 <glossentry id="aids">
  <glossAcronym>SIDA</glossAcronym>
  <glossBody>
    <glossSurfaceForm>síndrome de inmuno-deficiencia adquirida (SIDA)</glossSurfaceForm>
   <glossAlt>
    <glossFullForm>síndrome de inmuno-deficiencia adquirida</glossFullForm>
   </glossAlt>
  </glossBody>
 </glossentry>

</dita>


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