OASIS Mailing List ArchivesView the OASIS mailing list archive below
or browse/search using MarkMail.

 


Help: OASIS Mailing Lists Help | MarkMail Help

ebxml-bp message

[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]


Subject: FW: Differences between an operation and a BT


Had some problem with email yesterday.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jean-Jacques Dubray 
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:06 PM
To: 'monica.martin@sun.com'
Subject: FW: Differences between an operation and a BT

Did you get this message?

-----Original Message-----
From: Jean-Jacques Dubray 
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:37 AM
To: Monica J. Martin
Cc: ebXML BP; kpetrop@01P.gr
Subject: Differences between an operation and a BT

WS							Collaboration
Made of several operations without		Made of several BT with
an 
Explicit relationship to each other		explicit relationship
(chor)

Does not require a BSI or Agreement		Requires a BSI
Mechanisms						Requires
"negotiated" agreements


Operation						BT
Req, Response, Fault*				Request,Response*,
Fault*
No state alignement protocol			Business transaction
protocol
Directed (A->B)					No direction specified
(BTA)


Looking at this set of properties it is legitimate to ask the question
whether we want to make an operation invocation a BT (it clearly looks
like a subset). However, it is not because we can do something that we
should do something. This question is as legitimate (not more) to ask
whether a CORBA call or an RPC should be part of a collaboration. I
don't think I would find many people asking for invoking a method from a
BPSS. The reason why this question is relevant is because, WS is an
internet ready technology and many businesses may decide to expose a 

If we make an operation look like a BT we would
a) bring confusion, "so why do I need all this stuff if an operation IS
A business transaction". Transaction is about state alignment (not
rollback/compensation - rollback/compensation is a convenience mechanism
to serve state alignment). A web service operation does not give you any
kind of state alignment guarantee. ebXML BPSS and the ebXML architecture
has been carefully designed and tested to provide state alignment
capabilities via the concept of signals. Let me know if you need an
explanation on this (the short version is that in the WS, only the
consumer of the service knows the outcome, that kind of works for one of
services like "creditCheck" where the interaction does not depend on
previous states being reached. Imagine a world where we carry out
interactions without being sure of the past????). A web service
operation by itself CANNOT guaranty state alignment in any situation.

b) we will have to hack BPSS pretty much everywhere to explain that a
operation BT does not work like a BT 
	- cannot be used in any order (so we have to specify the roles
somewhere)
	- cannot be changed via "substitution set mechanism"
	- cannot be augmented to use a business transaction protocol
	- use a different "CPP/A" mechanism
	- different exception mechanism (technical failure)
	-...

Making an operation a BT will require that we annotate EVERY aspect of
BPSS to specify how this works with the operation BT pattern. It will
also limit our ability to use other WS stack spec as we see fit. 

I recommend that we keep operation and BT separate and create an
operation activity which has its own behavior totally independent from
the BT behavior. I recognize that this is a hybrid approach, but we are
dealing with technologies that had and will have different paths. 

JJ-



-----Original Message-----
From: David RR Webber [mailto:david@drrw.info] 
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:04 AM
To: Monica J. Martin
Cc: ebXML BP; kpetrop@01P.gr
Subject: Re: [ebxml-bp] Webber 5/23/2004: Laura Project Progress in
Europe

Monica,

Thanks I'll contact Kostas direct and provide input back on what I find
out.

DW

Quoting "Monica J. Martin" <Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>:

> David RR Webber wrote:
> 
> > http://www.lauraproject.org/project's%20description.html 
> > <http://www.lauraproject.org/project%27s%20description.html>
> >  
> > Does anyone have contact with this group?
> >  
> > Would be great to get their input into our BPSS work.
> >  
> > DW
> 
> mm1: David, I had seen a post in November 2003 from Kostas Petropoulos

> (kpetrop@01P.gr) on the ebxml-dev list. Your post reminded me today. 
> I've attached the relevant email about the project I had and also cc: 
> Kostas to respond on this project to set up B2B adaptive zones in 
> Greece, Germany, Bulgaria and Europe. We'll see what we can find out. 
> Can you take an action to follow this through? Thanks.
> 


http://drrw.net


[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]