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Revisiting the different deliverables in front of
us:
<ranjeeth>
Four documents to formalize by September 17th,
2001:
1) Domain: Taxonomies to include (what is part of
HumanML, what isn't)
2) Applications: What are the
major application areas of HumanML
3) Requirements:
What are the design features of HumanML (based
on
Applications)
4) New Deliverable Schedule:
(includes currently listed deliverables
[1] as well as additional
applications, alternative classifications,
cross-correlation efforts)
</ranjeeth>
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<kurt>
1) Domains. We'll be jockeying on this one until
the Sept 17 meeting, but I'm trying to figure out exactly which domains HumanML
is most specifically targeting. So far I've seen passing mention
to:
- RDF & Relational Mapping
- Avatars (X3D-H-Anim)
- Agents (?)
- Psychological Vocabularies
- Cultural Anthropology &
</kurt>
I would say these fall into the different
areas.
(kinda reminds me of grade school when we used to
draw lines connecting related--AND like current XSLT transformation programs
like BizTalk!)
RDF-Relational Mapping: -----> 3.
Design Requirement
Avatars: ------>
2. Applications
Agents:
------> 2. Applications
Psychological Vocabs
------>1. Domain
Cultural
Anthropology ------->1.
Domain
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
<repository>
2. Repository
</repository>
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 12:06
PM
Subject: Re: HumanMarkup
Reservations
Rex,
I have to admit that I'm reaching that not so
young category myself very quickly, but I think there are a few points here
that would probably be worth establishing:
1) Domains. We'll be jockeying on this one until
the Sept 17 meeting, but I'm trying to figure out exactly which domains
HumanML is most specifically targeting. So far I've seen passing mention
to:
- RDF & Relational Mapping
- Avatars (X3D-H-Anim)
- Agents (?)
- Psychological Vocabularies
- Cultural Anthropology & Art
What other domains are we looking at in this
respect? I look at this from the standpoint that we could be choosing as a
charter to create maps to "everything else" and then get so bogged down in
this task that the whole becomes an exercise in academic
absurdity.
2) Repositories. Mailing Lists have slightly less
transience than most other forms of e-mail because you can archive and digest
it, but it has some significant limitations for long term memory. It may
behoove us to set up a repository of ideas, a place where we can both put up
potential application concepts and can also start pulling together instances
of other activity that may have direct or indirect bearing on
HumanML.
3) Media. Just a quick note, but this WG is
likely to be the subject of intense media interest. When Carol made a press
release about it yesterday, it ended up on Slashdot, and spawned a MAJOR
discussion. I'm going to try to cull some of the more interesting commentary
there, but the point I wished to raise is that this group is going to end up
being more visible to the layman than almost anything else that either OASIS
or the W3C is doing at this point simply because it is (more or less)
understandable in lay terms. Everyone has their own idea about what goes into
describing a human being, while the discussion about business processes or
alternative schemas are for the most part too esoteric for all but a small
group of people to be really interested in.
Okay, back to your regularly scheduled
program.
-- Kurt
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 7:02
AM
Subject: Re: HumanMarkup
Reservations
> Hi Sean,
>
> I think you may be suffering from this"
HumanML Thoughts" Thread
> Syndrome that erupted yesterday.
>
> Remember, as I keep trying to point out, VRML/X3D-H-Anim is just one
> small application of HumanML.
>
> It is, however, in its
limited frame of reference, INTENSELY,
> followed and worked on, as are
the related Scientific and Academic
> (note the two realms are not
congruous) efforts related to this area.
> So, because the REALLY BIG
SHOW--SIGGRAPH 2001, just ended last
> weekend, there is a heightened
interest level. Our Press Release was
> timed, unintentionally, just
right to catch ALL of those people--but
> H-Anim and MPEG4 especially
since they are fellow standards groups
> working in this area-- AT
exactly the right time to push all their
> buttons
simultaneously.
>
> PRESTO! Brouhaha. Tempest in a Teapot.
Happens every year at this same time.
>
> Another one happens in
late February after the Web3D Consortium
> Yearly Symposium. And now
that OASIS has jumped into COMDEX, we can
> expect another such blip on
our radar screens when that show arrives.
>
> As for the
Applications. We actually have too many to focus down on
> one or two
narrow ones, but in that context, old son, YOU are in
> charge of about
half of the second largest domain, RDF, in our
> baliwick, so the shoe
here is really on the wrong foot.
>
> No offense, but it really
ought to be you overflowing with too many
> applications to chose from.
Us VRMLers just happen to have one that
> has been around a while and
is very visible.
>
> Now for my standard disclaimer warning:
<joke>Don't make me come over
> there, bub. You won't like
it.</joke>
>
> And gee, how do you expect an unborn fetus
scarcely out of embryo
> stage to deliver operating applications? I
thought you guys were here
> to work on that, not suffer identity
crises about what the darn
> thing is supposed to do. I thought we were
here to define and do that.
>
> Okay. Okay. Dad's done for now.
But seriously, the same goes for
> Manos. I think you guys are YOUNG.
That means impatient. Hell I'm old
> and twice as impatient as you'll
every be, and I'm sticking it out.
> And as with you, Manos points out
some important things. We do need
> to get straight with the Ontologies
effort, but we haven't crossed
> any lines or burned any bridges nor
have we gotten out of bounds. We
> do have a lot of work to do.
>
> There is an old saying: Horses for Courses. We are riding a very big
> horse here on a very big course. Widen your focus a bit. The
rest of
> my comments are in context below.
>
>
Ciao,
> Rex
>
> At 11:34 AM +0100 8/23/01, Sean B. Palmer
wrote:
> >Book your tickets now... no, not those kind of
reservations! I mean
> >"reservations" in the pejorative
sense.
> >
> >As Manos has pointed out to me, I seem to be
stuck on some odd sort of
> >"HumanML: emoticons; HumanML: emotions"
thing, and it's bugging me. My rule
> >of thumb is that if I don't
have an application of something running (or
> >runnable) on my
desktop, then it's not useful. That's why I'm not too keen
> >on
VRML.
> >
> >So I seem to be lost out here. Lost in a kind
of "well, we'll charter a
> >group and work out what it does later"
ambience... and somebody needs to
> >sort that out quick. Not IMHO;
*really*. How do I get this through to
> >people? Perhaps it's just
that I don't have the HumanML available yet to do
> >so :-)
>
>
> >Of course, having said that, HumanML can't and won't be used
in plain text,
> >any more than people are going to be writing chunks
of XHTML. It's not
> >going to be used on IRC either; sorry, but real
time HumanML isn't going to
> >happen unless the interface somewhat
kicks-ass.
>
> How about "Interfaces?" Like Modules?
>
> >What I'd like the group to focus on more is useful stuff like
managing
> >collaborations, trust mechanisms, and the like. Of
course, I'm coming at
> >this from the RDF angle, so I'm already
thinking about trust on the
> >Semantic Web and so forth, but there
is a great overlap between that and
> >HumanMarkup. Do I trust this
person? How do I establish that trust?
>
> This is good. In fact,
maybe you are running over with app ideas. One
> thought, let it be
known that one's trustability is being tracked by
> databases other
than the one that holds their identity information?
> something along
the lines of "Pay attention, there will be a quiz
>
later."
>
> >Another possible direction is a cultural database
deeley, where you could
> >look up gestures and so forth, and be able
to learn details about cultural
> >idioms; useful for business
meetings and so forth. I probably wouldn't be
> >able to help with
that, and it would have very little to do with HumanML,
> >but it
would be useful all the same.
>
> This is a biggie, and while
part of the driver mechanism for H-Anim,
> much larger than 3D
apps==going to real world business apps.
>
> >Something else -
that Kurt raised - would be establishing mappings from
>
>SVG+metadata to text using XSLT or whatever. I'm not sure what that has
to
> >do with "HumanMarkup", but then contrarywise, I'm not sure
what
> >"HumanMarkup" has to do with anything, so we'd better bend
the rules a
> >little bit.
>
> No rules to bend yet.
Probably better that way.
>
> >Just hide behind a wall when an
OASIS official comes, or something.
> >
> >--
>
>Kindest Regards,
> >Sean B. Palmer
> >@prefix :
<http://webns.net/roughterms/>
.
> >:Sean :hasHomepage <http://purl.org/net/sbp/>
.
> >
> >
>
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>
> --
> Rex
Brooks
> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison, Berkeley, CA, 94702 USA,
Earth
> W3Address: http://www.starbourne.com
> Email: rexb@starbourne.com
> Tel: 510-849-2309
> Fax: By Request
>
>
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