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Subject: RE: [cgmo-webcgm] ISSUE: font mapping (continued)


[...3rd of two...]

Having looked in previous messages at some of the technical issues around 
the font-sub file ... I actually don't have a real strong opinion about 
including it or not, provided that 1.) it is targeted at the valid use 
case, and 2.) is principally understood as a viewer-time standard syntax 
for Boeing-like users to unify their handling of numerous viewers that 
support equivalent functionality.

Since some users and vendors seem to really want it, I'm inclined to "okay".

A couple more comments are embedded...

At 04:18 PM 4/9/2008 -0600, Robert Orosz wrote:
>I'm pretty much in agreement with Dieter (and Benoit) here.  As Benoit
>pointed earlier and Dieter reiterates here, the only way to guarantee usage
>of a particular font on the target system is to embed that font into the
>CGM.  The CGM standard currently does not have a mechanism for doing this.
>
>I have a couple of things to add to what has already been said.
>
>1) Users might not react favorably if they have to maintain two companion
>files (normal XCF plus font mapping) for each CGM.

I don't like this either.  At one time we were talking about unifying it 
with XCF (incl. having some inclusion-by-reference syntax).


>2) Dieter states below: "... or we should specify rules how a viewer should
>be looking for a similar font on the target computer."  The Font Properties
>element is intended for this exact purpose; i.e. it lets the CGM creator
>specify to the viewer how it should be looking for a substitute font.  Each
>property has a priority value attached to it which specifies the weight to
>give to that particular property when evaluating the suitability of an
>alternate font.

True enough, and I think a lot more could be done with Font 
Properties.  But I see some problems:
1.) I suspect that useful implementation of Font Properties is rare in 
viewers (shall we poll it? test it?);
2.) it is a collection of generator-time, generic substitution guidance to 
the viewer -- there is no way to force a specific substitution.

All for now,
-Lofton.


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Weidenbrueck, Dieter [mailto:dweidenbrueck@ptc.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 3:34 PM
>To: Don; david.w.cruikshank@boeing.com; CGM Open WebCGM TC
>Subject: RE: [cgmo-webcgm] ISSUE: font mapping (continued)
>
>
>Don and all,
>
>The more we get into this discussion, the less I understand what it
>really is that we want to standardize.
>
>Let's recap:
>
>- we have a standardized and unambiguous way to specify fonts inside a
>WebCGM file
>- we recognize that such a font needs to be specified by the creator of
>the file, who has no idea about the actual font installation on any
>target computer
>- current viewer implementations provide font mapping on the client
>side, i.e. where the font installation of the target computer is known.
>
>Now the suggestion is to prepare a font mapping file on the creator side
>(which still has no clue which fonts will be installed on the target
>systems, and how much this varies from computer to computer), and to
>send this out with the WebCGM file. More than that, the proposal below
>suggests recovery methods for mistyped fonts in the font mapping file.
>So we are talking about a recovery method for a recovery method for a
>standardized font mechanism inside WebCGM.
>
>My position is:
>- font mapping can only happen reliably on the target computer itself,
>because this is the only place where the fonts are known that could be
>used for substitution purposes.
>- as Lofton pointed out wrt other things, we are defining how things
>SHOULD be done, not the recovery methods for files that are not
>compliant to the spec.
>- if flexibility is needed on the font side, we should specify
>alternatives inside the WebCGM file, similar to SVG, or we should
>specify rules how a viewer should be looking for a similar font on the
>target computer
>
>Font mapping should remain a viewer feature, as much as the excellent
>recovery methods that Don described below. We have dozends of such
>workarounds in our code to deal with lots of buggy files from the past.
>
>Regards,
>Dieter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Don [mailto:dlarson@cgmlarson.com]
>Sent: Mittwoch, 9. April 2008 17:12
>To: david.w.cruikshank@boeing.com; CGM Open WebCGM TC
>Subject: re: [cgmo-webcgm] ISSUE: font mapping (continued)
>
>dave
>
>Here's my thoughts on font substitution issue.
>
>I think that we need standard (viewer independent way) to do font
>substitution in the viewer for all the reasons you have mentioned.
>
>I do think though, that variances in font names like whitespaces,
>hyphens and upper/lower case will cause a matching problem as Benoit
>suggested, e.g.
>
>Courier-BoldOblique
>Courier BoldOblique
>CourierBoldOblique
>
>
>My thinking is that we need to further specify that when the viewer is
>trying to match fonts in CGM for substitution, it should ignore
>whitespace, hyphens, and convert to lower case in the font names.
>
>We do this now in our font substitution algorithm and it has worked well
>for us.
>
>
>Regards,
>Don
>  >  There was a long thread (primarily between PTC and Boeing)
>concerning  >  the font mapping requirement.
>
>  >  See:
>  >
>http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/cgmo-webcgm/200803/msg00111.html
>
>  >  It's time to get other's opinions.  Please review the thread and
>reply  >  with you're thoughts (vendors?, users?)
>
>  >  My position is that when the font in the CGM file is not a match to
>a  >  font on the user platform, I want a "standard" method to specify
>which  >  font to substitute..
>
>  >  Thx...Dave
>
>  >  Technical Fellow - Graphics/Digital Data Interchange  >  Boeing
>Commercial Airplane  >  206.544.3560, fax 206.662.3734  >
>david.w.cruikshank@boeing.com
>
>
>  >
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