Fw: [chairs] public comment web form

[Rich Thompson <richt2@us.ibm.com>]

Sorry, just noticed I had hit reply
rather than reply all ....
----- Forwarded by Rich
Thompson/Watson/IBM on 09/05/2003 10:09 AM -----

Rich Thompson 09/05/2003 10:08 AM

To:        karl.best@oasis-open.org         cc:                 From:        Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS         Subject:        Re: [chairs] public comment web formLink

I would suggest that the public lists
are not normally moderated, but that moving a list to a moderated status
is the means of reigning in abuse. Essentially this becomes a slap on the
wrists for TCs and chairs that tolerate or encourage such abuse.

Rich Thompson
OASIS WSRP TC Chair

"Karl F. Best" <karl.best@oasis-open.org> 09/05/2003 09:48 AM Please respond to karl.best

To:        Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS         cc:        chairs@lists.oasis-open.org         Subject:        Re: [chairs] public comment web form

Rich:

I don't have a problem with encouraging public input into the technical
work of the TC. So in that sense I agree with what you've said. However,
  as you say in #2 below,

 > ... Responses that provide answers/ask for clarification are
 > acceptable, but technical discussions on the merits of different
items
 > is not.

How do we stop discussions from taking place? What mechanism can we put
in place that allows input without discussion? You suggest

 > ... I would rather see a mechanism put into place that would
 > allow OASIS TC Admin to moderate a comment list that is being abused
 > rather than throwing out the forum from the overall process.

But that seems to imply a person (me?) acting as moderator to allow 
comments to be sent but to stop things when it looks like a discussion
is starting up. The problem is, this takes a lot of time that I don't 
have. Nor does anyone else on OASIS staff have the time to act as 
moderator for any of our 200+ lists.

I'm open to suggestions that I can pass on to the Board for refining the
Process.

-Karl




Rich Thompson wrote:
> 
> I see. I would be concerned that this may be a case of "throwing
out the 
> baby with the bath water". I say that not because the WSRP comment
list 
> has been heavily used (I'm sure I received more private emails asking
> questions as the spec editor than the comment list did), but rather
> because I see utility to having two distinct discussion forums:
> 
> 1. Expert oriented - only TC members may post to this list and its
> primary purpose is to hold discussions on the technical issues before
> the TC.
> 
> 2. Public oriented - Any subscriber may post to this list and its
> primary purpose is for comments and questions from the public on the
> work of the TC. Responses that provide answers/ask for clarification
are 
> acceptable, but technical discussions on the merits of different items
> is not.
> 
> Clearly the main TC and SC email lists provide the function of #1
and it 
> sounds like many of us thought the comment list provided the function
of 
> #2. Provided there is general agreement that this is important 
> functionality, I would rather see a mechanism put into place that
would 
> allow OASIS TC Admin to moderate a comment list that is being abused
> rather than throwing out the forum from the overall process.
> 
> Rich Thompson
> OASIS WSRP TC Chair
> 
> 
> "Karl F. Best" <karl.best@oasis-open.org>
> 
> 09/05/2003 08:37 AM
> Please respond to karl.best
> 
>        
>         To:        Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
>         cc:        chairs@lists.oasis-open.org
>         Subject:        Re:
[chairs] public comment web form
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, there have been TCs who have conducted technical discussions
on the
> comment lists. Under the guise of getting technical input from a broad
> number of sources, they have actually reduced the incentive for people
> to join the TC.
> 
> -Karl
> 
> 
> Rich Thompson wrote:
>  >
>  > So if I understand the design:
>  >  - There will no longer be a -comment email list one
can subscribe to
>  >  - There will be a web form for submitting comments
>  >  - These comments will be emailed to the chair and
appended to a
>  > publically accessible archive
>  >
>  > This maintains accountability, but is a drop on the openness
front.
>  > Still accountable because anyone can go search the -comment
archive, but
>  > less open as many fewer will do that than who subscribe
to the -comment
>  > lists today.
>  >
>  > I guess I would back up and question why it is a problem
for the public
>  > email list to be a discussion forum. Have there been instances
where
>  > this was distractive to the work of the TC or perhaps used
>  > inappropriately by some members of the public? Other reasons
driving the
>  > change?
>  >
>  > Rich Thompson
>  > OASIS WSRP TC Chair
>  >
>  >
>  > "Karl F. Best" <karl.best@oasis-open.org>
>  >
>  > 09/04/2003 02:01 PM
>  > Please respond to karl.best
>  >
>  >        
>  >         To:        Rich
Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
>  >         cc:        chairs@lists.oasis-open.org
>  >         Subject:      
 Re: [chairs] public comment web form
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > The submitted comment will be forwarded to the chair as
well as put in
>  > the -comment archive. So there will still be the same accountability
for
>  > the comments received.
>  >
>  > -Karl
>  >
>  >
>  > Rich Thompson wrote:
>  >  >
>  >  > One could always argue that the chair can forward
the comment with a
>  >  > reply to the TC mail list rather than a private
response. I was more
>  >  > concerned that this takes what was an open communication
(posting 
> to an
>  >  > email list) and turns it into a private communication
(email to the
>  >  > chair). This seems to go against the open nature
of OASIS.
>  >  >
>  >  > Rich Thompson
>  >  > OASIS WSRP TC Chair
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > "Drummond Reed" <drummond.reed@onename.com>
>  >  >
>  >  > 09/04/2003 01:27 PM
>  >  >
>  >  >        
>  >  >         To:    
   <lauren@textuality.com>, 
> <chairs@lists.oasis-open.org>
>  >  >         cc:    
   "Gabe Wachob (E-mail)" <gwachob@visa.com>
>  >  >         Subject:  
     RE: [chairs] public comment web form
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > Karl,
>  >  >
>  >  > I agree with Lauren. At least a limited form
of public discussion 
> seems
>  >  > like a valuable portion of what OASIS provides.
What was the board's
>  >  > thinking on this?
>  >  >
>  >  > =Drummond
>  >  >
>  >  > -----Original Message-----
>  >  > From: Lauren Wood [mailto:lauren@textuality.com]
>  >  > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 10:02 AM
>  >  > To: chairs@lists.oasis-open.org
>  >  > Subject: [chairs] public comment web form
>  >  >
>  >  > Karl wrote:
>  >  >
>  >  > * The TC's public comment list is replaced with
a "means to collect
>  >  > public comments", which will be a web form.
(This is to prevent the
>  >  > comment list from being used as a discussion
list.) Comments
>  >  > collected by the web form will go to the chairs.
I'm having the web
>  >  > forms built  now and will announce to the
comment lists when this
>  >  > change will take place.  
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > Karl,
>  >  >
>  >  > how do we then ask clarifying questions, or
make quick replies (along
>  >  > the lines of "see section 2.1. in the spec
- isn't that clear
>  >  > enough?"
>  >  >
>  >  > I can understand not wanting full discussions,
but we often do need
>  >  > clarifying discussions to know what the comment
provider really
>  >  > meant. And I'd rather not have that take place
in private email.
>  >  >
>  >  > Lauren
>  >  >
>  >  > ---
>  >  > Lauren Wood, Textuality
>  >  > Chair, ER TC
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be
removed from the 
> roster of
>  >  > the OASIS TC), go to
>  >  > 
> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/chairs/members/leave_workgr
>  >  > oup.php.
>  >  >
>  >  > To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be
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>  >  > the OASIS TC), go to
>  >  >
>  > 
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>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > =================================================================
>  > Karl F. Best
>  > Vice President, OASIS
>  > office  +1 978.667.5115 x206     mobile
+1 978.761.1648
>  > karl.best@oasis-open.org      http://www.oasis-open.org
>  >
>  >
> 
> 
> -- 
> =================================================================
> Karl F. Best
> Vice President, OASIS
> office  +1 978.667.5115 x206     mobile +1 978.761.1648
> karl.best@oasis-open.org      http://www.oasis-open.org
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster
of 
> the OASIS TC), go to 
> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/chairs/members/leave_workgroup.php.
> 
> 


-- 
=================================================================
Karl F. Best
Vice President, OASIS
office  +1 978.667.5115 x206     mobile +1 978.761.1648
karl.best@oasis-open.org      http://www.oasis-open.org