Re: Fw: [chairs] public comment web form

[Rich Thompson <richt2@us.ibm.com>]

This question gets back to the fact
that everyone that might make sense is already overloaded ....

I would think that process-wise, OASIS
TC Admin would be responsible for the moderation. One could hope that this
could be delegated to the TC chair, but the abuse case you cited (TC encouraging
discussion) might be one where it is questionable whether or not delegated
the function to the TC chair would actually stop the abuse.

Whether or not the threat of changing
a list to a moderated format would reduce abuse cases down to where it
would not be a significant load becomes the interesting question.

Rich Thompson
OASIS WSRP TC Chair

"Karl F. Best" <karl.best@oasis-open.org> 09/05/2003 10:20 AM Please respond to karl.best

To:        Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS         cc:        chairs@lists.oasis-open.org         Subject:        Re: Fw: [chairs] public comment web form

Who should the moderator be?

-Karl


Rich Thompson wrote:
> 
> Sorry, just noticed I had hit reply rather than reply all ....
> ----- Forwarded by Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM on 09/05/2003 10:09 AM
-----
> Rich Thompson
> 
> 09/05/2003 10:08 AM
> 
> 
>         To:        karl.best@oasis-open.org
>         cc:        
>         From:        Rich
Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
>         Subject:        Re:
[chairs] public comment web formLink 
> <Notes:///8525626C006C32DD/32547D7F59F9E7E38525613200556E77/7BF0B20F52994DCC85256D98004BE491>
> 
> 
> 
> I would suggest that the public lists are not normally moderated,
but 
> that moving a list to a moderated status is the means of reigning
in 
> abuse. Essentially this becomes a slap on the wrists for TCs and chairs
> that tolerate or encourage such abuse.
> 
> Rich Thompson
> OASIS WSRP TC Chair
> 
> 
> "Karl F. Best" <karl.best@oasis-open.org>
> 
> 09/05/2003 09:48 AM
> Please respond to karl.best
> 
>        
>         To:        Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
>         cc:        chairs@lists.oasis-open.org
>         Subject:        Re:
[chairs] public comment web form
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rich:
> 
> I don't have a problem with encouraging public input into the technical
> work of the TC. So in that sense I agree with what you've said. However,
>  as you say in #2 below,
> 
>  > ... Responses that provide answers/ask for clarification
are
>  > acceptable, but technical discussions on the merits of
different items
>  > is not.
> 
> How do we stop discussions from taking place? What mechanism can we
put
> in place that allows input without discussion? You suggest
> 
>  > ... I would rather see a mechanism put into place that
would
>  > allow OASIS TC Admin to moderate a comment list that is
being abused
>  > rather than throwing out the forum from the overall process.
> 
> But that seems to imply a person (me?) acting as moderator to allow
> comments to be sent but to stop things when it looks like a discussion
> is starting up. The problem is, this takes a lot of time that I don't
> have. Nor does anyone else on OASIS staff have the time to act as
> moderator for any of our 200+ lists.
> 
> I'm open to suggestions that I can pass on to the Board for refining
the
> Process.
> 
> -Karl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rich Thompson wrote:
>  >
>  > I see. I would be concerned that this may be a case of
"throwing out the
>  > baby with the bath water". I say that not because
the WSRP comment list
>  > has been heavily used (I'm sure I received more private
emails asking
>  > questions as the spec editor than the comment list did),
but rather
>  > because I see utility to having two distinct discussion
forums:
>  >
>  > 1. Expert oriented - only TC members may post to this list
and its
>  > primary purpose is to hold discussions on the technical
issues before
>  > the TC.
>  >
>  > 2. Public oriented - Any subscriber may post to this list
and its
>  > primary purpose is for comments and questions from the
public on the
>  > work of the TC. Responses that provide answers/ask for
clarification are
>  > acceptable, but technical discussions on the merits of
different items
>  > is not.
>  >
>  > Clearly the main TC and SC email lists provide the function
of #1 and it
>  > sounds like many of us thought the comment list provided
the function of
>  > #2. Provided there is general agreement that this is important
>  > functionality, I would rather see a mechanism put into
place that would
>  > allow OASIS TC Admin to moderate a comment list that is
being abused
>  > rather than throwing out the forum from the overall process.
>  >
>  > Rich Thompson
>  > OASIS WSRP TC Chair
>  >
>  >
>  > "Karl F. Best" <karl.best@oasis-open.org>
>  >
>  > 09/05/2003 08:37 AM
>  > Please respond to karl.best
>  >
>  >        
>  >         To:        Rich
Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
>  >         cc:        chairs@lists.oasis-open.org
>  >         Subject:      
 Re: [chairs] public comment web form
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Yes, there have been TCs who have conducted technical discussions
on the
>  > comment lists. Under the guise of getting technical input
from a broad
>  > number of sources, they have actually reduced the incentive
for people
>  > to join the TC.
>  >
>  > -Karl
>  >
>  >
>  > Rich Thompson wrote:
>  >  >
>  >  > So if I understand the design:
>  >  >  - There will no longer be a -comment email
list one can subscribe to
>  >  >  - There will be a web form for submitting
comments
>  >  >  - These comments will be emailed to the
chair and appended to a
>  >  > publically accessible archive
>  >  >
>  >  > This maintains accountability, but is a drop
on the openness front.
>  >  > Still accountable because anyone can go search
the -comment 
> archive, but
>  >  > less open as many fewer will do that than who
subscribe to the 
> -comment
>  >  > lists today.
>  >  >
>  >  > I guess I would back up and question why it
is a problem for the 
> public
>  >  > email list to be a discussion forum. Have there
been instances where
>  >  > this was distractive to the work of the TC or
perhaps used
>  >  > inappropriately by some members of the public?
Other reasons 
> driving the
>  >  > change?
>  >  >
>  >  > Rich Thompson
>  >  > OASIS WSRP TC Chair
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > "Karl F. Best" <karl.best@oasis-open.org>
>  >  >
>  >  > 09/04/2003 02:01 PM
>  >  > Please respond to karl.best
>  >  >
>  >  >        
>  >  >         To:    
   Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
>  >  >         cc:    
   chairs@lists.oasis-open.org
>  >  >         Subject:  
     Re: [chairs] public comment web form
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > The submitted comment will be forwarded to the
chair as well as put in
>  >  > the -comment archive. So there will still be
the same 
> accountability for
>  >  > the comments received.
>  >  >
>  >  > -Karl
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > Rich Thompson wrote:
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > One could always argue that the chair
can forward the comment 
> with a
>  >  >  > reply to the TC mail list rather
than a private response. I was 
> more
>  >  >  > concerned that this takes what was
an open communication (posting
>  > to an
>  >  >  > email list) and turns it into a private
communication (email to the
>  >  >  > chair). This seems to go against
the open nature of OASIS.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > Rich Thompson
>  >  >  > OASIS WSRP TC Chair
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > "Drummond Reed" <drummond.reed@onename.com>
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > 09/04/2003 01:27 PM
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >        
>  >  >  >         To:  
     <lauren@textuality.com>,
>  > <chairs@lists.oasis-open.org>
>  >  >  >         cc:  
     "Gabe Wachob (E-mail)" <gwachob@visa.com>
>  >  >  >         Subject:
       RE: [chairs] public comment web form
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > Karl,
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > I agree with Lauren. At least a limited
form of public discussion
>  > seems
>  >  >  > like a valuable portion of what OASIS
provides. What was the 
> board's
>  >  >  > thinking on this?
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > =Drummond
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > -----Original Message-----
>  >  >  > From: Lauren Wood [mailto:lauren@textuality.com]
>  >  >  > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003
10:02 AM
>  >  >  > To: chairs@lists.oasis-open.org
>  >  >  > Subject: [chairs] public comment
web form
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > Karl wrote:
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > * The TC's public comment list is
replaced with a "means to collect
>  >  >  > public comments", which will
be a web form. (This is to prevent the
>  >  >  > comment list from being used as a
discussion list.) Comments
>  >  >  > collected by the web form will go
to the chairs. I'm having the web
>  >  >  > forms built  now and will announce
to the comment lists when this
>  >  >  > change will take place.  
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > Karl,
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > how do we then ask clarifying questions,
or make quick replies 
> (along
>  >  >  > the lines of "see section 2.1.
in the spec - isn't that clear
>  >  >  > enough?"
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > I can understand not wanting full
discussions, but we often do need
>  >  >  > clarifying discussions to know what
the comment provider really
>  >  >  > meant. And I'd rather not have that
take place in private email.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > Lauren
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > ---
>  >  >  > Lauren Wood, Textuality
>  >  >  > Chair, ER TC
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > To unsubscribe from this mailing
list (and be removed from the
>  > roster of
>  >  >  > the OASIS TC), go to
>  >  >  >
>  > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/chairs/members/leave_workgr
>  >  >  > oup.php.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > To unsubscribe from this mailing
list (and be removed from the
>  > roster of
>  >  >  > the OASIS TC), go to
>  >  >  >
>  >  >
>  > 
> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/chairs/members/leave_workgroup.php.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > --
>  >  > =================================================================
>  >  > Karl F. Best
>  >  > Vice President, OASIS
>  >  > office  +1 978.667.5115 x206    
mobile +1 978.761.1648
>  >  > karl.best@oasis-open.org      http://www.oasis-open.org
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > =================================================================
>  > Karl F. Best
>  > Vice President, OASIS
>  > office  +1 978.667.5115 x206     mobile
+1 978.761.1648
>  > karl.best@oasis-open.org      http://www.oasis-open.org
>  >
>  >
>  > To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from
the roster of
>  > the OASIS TC), go to
>  > 
> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/chairs/members/leave_workgroup.php.
>  >
>  >
> 
> 
> -- 
> =================================================================
> Karl F. Best
> Vice President, OASIS
> office  +1 978.667.5115 x206     mobile +1 978.761.1648
> karl.best@oasis-open.org      http://www.oasis-open.org
> 
> 


-- 
=================================================================
Karl F. Best
Vice President, OASIS
office  +1 978.667.5115 x206     mobile +1 978.761.1648
karl.best@oasis-open.org      http://www.oasis-open.org


To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster of
the OASIS TC), go to http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/chairs/members/leave_workgroup.php.