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Subject: Re: Fw: [chairs] public comment web form
The moderator for each -comment list, should probably be the Chairs and Vice Chairs of the TCs and the SCs within. In UBL we have not had any problem with technical discussions taking place on the wrong list. Oasis could just ask the Chairs to make sure that doesn't happen and then trust us to moderate as needed. It seems awfully controlling to change the -comment list like this. Don't you trust us? Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl F. Best" <karl.best@oasis-open.org> To: "Rich Thompson" <richt2@us.ibm.com> Cc: <chairs@lists.oasis-open.org> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 9:20 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [chairs] public comment web form > Who should the moderator be? > > -Karl > > > Rich Thompson wrote: > > > > Sorry, just noticed I had hit reply rather than reply all .... > > ----- Forwarded by Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM on 09/05/2003 10:09 AM ----- > > Rich Thompson > > > > 09/05/2003 10:08 AM > > > > > > To: karl.best@oasis-open.org > > cc: > > From: Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS > > Subject: Re: [chairs] public comment web formLink > > <Notes:///8525626C006C32DD/32547D7F59F9E7E38525613200556E77/7BF0B20F52994DCC 85256D98004BE491> > > > > > > > > I would suggest that the public lists are not normally moderated, but > > that moving a list to a moderated status is the means of reigning in > > abuse. Essentially this becomes a slap on the wrists for TCs and chairs > > that tolerate or encourage such abuse. > > > > Rich Thompson > > OASIS WSRP TC Chair > > > > > > "Karl F. Best" <karl.best@oasis-open.org> > > > > 09/05/2003 09:48 AM > > Please respond to karl.best > > > > > > To: Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS > > cc: chairs@lists.oasis-open.org > > Subject: Re: [chairs] public comment web form > > > > > > > > > > Rich: > > > > I don't have a problem with encouraging public input into the technical > > work of the TC. So in that sense I agree with what you've said. However, > > as you say in #2 below, > > > > > ... Responses that provide answers/ask for clarification are > > > acceptable, but technical discussions on the merits of different items > > > is not. > > > > How do we stop discussions from taking place? What mechanism can we put > > in place that allows input without discussion? You suggest > > > > > ... I would rather see a mechanism put into place that would > > > allow OASIS TC Admin to moderate a comment list that is being abused > > > rather than throwing out the forum from the overall process. > > > > But that seems to imply a person (me?) acting as moderator to allow > > comments to be sent but to stop things when it looks like a discussion > > is starting up. The problem is, this takes a lot of time that I don't > > have. Nor does anyone else on OASIS staff have the time to act as > > moderator for any of our 200+ lists. > > > > I'm open to suggestions that I can pass on to the Board for refining the > > Process. > > > > -Karl > > > > > > > > > > Rich Thompson wrote: > > > > > > I see. I would be concerned that this may be a case of "throwing out the > > > baby with the bath water". I say that not because the WSRP comment list > > > has been heavily used (I'm sure I received more private emails asking > > > questions as the spec editor than the comment list did), but rather > > > because I see utility to having two distinct discussion forums: > > > > > > 1. Expert oriented - only TC members may post to this list and its > > > primary purpose is to hold discussions on the technical issues before > > > the TC. > > > > > > 2. Public oriented - Any subscriber may post to this list and its > > > primary purpose is for comments and questions from the public on the > > > work of the TC. Responses that provide answers/ask for clarification are > > > acceptable, but technical discussions on the merits of different items > > > is not. > > > > > > Clearly the main TC and SC email lists provide the function of #1 and it > > > sounds like many of us thought the comment list provided the function of > > > #2. Provided there is general agreement that this is important > > > functionality, I would rather see a mechanism put into place that would > > > allow OASIS TC Admin to moderate a comment list that is being abused > > > rather than throwing out the forum from the overall process. > > > > > > Rich Thompson > > > OASIS WSRP TC Chair > > > > > > > > > "Karl F. Best" <karl.best@oasis-open.org> > > > > > > 09/05/2003 08:37 AM > > > Please respond to karl.best > > > > > > > > > To: Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS > > > cc: chairs@lists.oasis-open.org > > > Subject: Re: [chairs] public comment web form > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there have been TCs who have conducted technical discussions on the > > > comment lists. Under the guise of getting technical input from a broad > > > number of sources, they have actually reduced the incentive for people > > > to join the TC. > > > > > > -Karl > > > > > > > > > Rich Thompson wrote: > > > > > > > > So if I understand the design: > > > > - There will no longer be a -comment email list one can subscribe to > > > > - There will be a web form for submitting comments > > > > - These comments will be emailed to the chair and appended to a > > > > publically accessible archive > > > > > > > > This maintains accountability, but is a drop on the openness front. > > > > Still accountable because anyone can go search the -comment > > archive, but > > > > less open as many fewer will do that than who subscribe to the > > -comment > > > > lists today. > > > > > > > > I guess I would back up and question why it is a problem for the > > public > > > > email list to be a discussion forum. Have there been instances where > > > > this was distractive to the work of the TC or perhaps used > > > > inappropriately by some members of the public? Other reasons > > driving the > > > > change? > > > > > > > > Rich Thompson > > > > OASIS WSRP TC Chair > > > > > > > > > > > > "Karl F. Best" <karl.best@oasis-open.org> > > > > > > > > 09/04/2003 02:01 PM > > > > Please respond to karl.best > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS > > > > cc: chairs@lists.oasis-open.org > > > > Subject: Re: [chairs] public comment web form > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The submitted comment will be forwarded to the chair as well as put in > > > > the -comment archive. So there will still be the same > > accountability for > > > > the comments received. > > > > > > > > -Karl > > > > > > > > > > > > Rich Thompson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > One could always argue that the chair can forward the comment > > with a > > > > > reply to the TC mail list rather than a private response. I was > > more > > > > > concerned that this takes what was an open communication (posting > > > to an > > > > > email list) and turns it into a private communication (email to the > > > > > chair). This seems to go against the open nature of OASIS. > > > > > > > > > > Rich Thompson > > > > > OASIS WSRP TC Chair > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Drummond Reed" <drummond.reed@onename.com> > > > > > > > > > > 09/04/2003 01:27 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: <lauren@textuality.com>, > > > <chairs@lists.oasis-open.org> > > > > > cc: "Gabe Wachob (E-mail)" <gwachob@visa.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [chairs] public comment web form > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karl, > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Lauren. At least a limited form of public discussion > > > seems > > > > > like a valuable portion of what OASIS provides. What was the > > board's > > > > > thinking on this? > > > > > > > > > > =Drummond > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Lauren Wood [mailto:lauren@textuality.com] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 10:02 AM > > > > > To: chairs@lists.oasis-open.org > > > > > Subject: [chairs] public comment web form > > > > > > > > > > Karl wrote: > > > > > > > > > > * The TC's public comment list is replaced with a "means to collect > > > > > public comments", which will be a web form. (This is to prevent the > > > > > comment list from being used as a discussion list.) Comments > > > > > collected by the web form will go to the chairs. I'm having the web > > > > > forms built now and will announce to the comment lists when this > > > > > change will take place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karl, > > > > > > > > > > how do we then ask clarifying questions, or make quick replies > > (along > > > > > the lines of "see section 2.1. in the spec - isn't that clear > > > > > enough?" > > > > > > > > > > I can understand not wanting full discussions, but we often do need > > > > > clarifying discussions to know what the comment provider really > > > > > meant. And I'd rather not have that take place in private email. > > > > > > > > > > Lauren > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > Lauren Wood, Textuality > > > > > Chair, ER TC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the > > > roster of > > > > > the OASIS TC), go to > > > > > > > > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/chairs/members/leave_workgr > > > > > oup.php. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the > > > roster of > > > > > the OASIS TC), go to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/chairs/members/leave_workgroup.php. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > ================================================================= > > > > Karl F. Best > > > > Vice President, OASIS > > > > office +1 978.667.5115 x206 mobile +1 978.761.1648 > > > > karl.best@oasis-open.org http://www.oasis-open.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ================================================================= > > > Karl F. Best > > > Vice President, OASIS > > > office +1 978.667.5115 x206 mobile +1 978.761.1648 > > > karl.best@oasis-open.org http://www.oasis-open.org > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster of > > > the OASIS TC), go to > > > > > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/chairs/members/leave_workgroup.php. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ================================================================= > > Karl F. Best > > Vice President, OASIS > > office +1 978.667.5115 x206 mobile +1 978.761.1648 > > karl.best@oasis-open.org http://www.oasis-open.org > > > > > > > -- > ================================================================= > Karl F. Best > Vice President, OASIS > office +1 978.667.5115 x206 mobile +1 978.761.1648 > karl.best@oasis-open.org http://www.oasis-open.org > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster of the OASIS TC), go to http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/chairs/members/leave_workgroup.php. > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 9/1/2003
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