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Subject: Re: [codelist] ECF court policy code list requirements

Thanks, Jim.  I'm slightly amused at the suggestion that genericode would  
add complexity, given the format they are proposing.  To be fair, at this  
stage where there aren't standard genericode libraries, it's true that a  
full implementation of genericode would be a burden for an implementor who  
just wanted to use genericode rather than build software to support it.   
However, restricting their usage of genericode to a simple profile of  
genericode, like that used by UBL or FpML, wouldn't burden implementors so  

My reading of the document is that they have mixed two things together (at  
least as I would view it); those two things are (a) the underlying code  
lists and (b) the contextual usage rules for when it is appropriate to use  
particular codes from particular lists.  Genericode is only designed to  
deal with (a), while (b) is more closely related to the context modelling  
methodology that I'm working on in a separate group in UN/CEFACT.

One of the key questions that they will need to address is whether the  
context rules that they have now are fully representative of all of the  
context requirements that they will ever have.  Another is whether the  
rules actually apply to just the codes themselves, or whether they  
(implicitly or otherwise) apply to the use of particular codes in  
particular elements or attributes in particular XML formats.  I think it  
is the latter, which means that the format that is being proposed is  
tightly coupled to the message structure, with everything good and bad  
that goes with that.

I have no doubt that they can create their own tactical XML format that  
addresses, in a focussed and compact fashion, the requirements that they  
have today.  However, a significant question is whether this format will  
be able to evolve over time to support all of the contextual rules that  
could be required.  Also, a narrow vertical format like this is unlikely  
to ever have broad vendor support, and that should be taken into account  
in evaluating how much of a burden is put on implementers.

My personal recommendation to them would be to uncouple code lists and  
context rules so that they can be dealt with separately, and consider  
whether a combination of

(a) genericode (i.e. a restricted profile thereof) and
(b) Schematron or pre-calculated subset enumeration Schemas

would provide a suitably flexible solution, potentially with more  
broad-based vendor support.

Cheers, Tony.

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:47:08 +0100, Harris, Jim <jharris@ncsc.dni.us>  

> All,
> I just returned from a face-to-face meeting of the ECF TC (held last
> Friday, 5-Oct-2007 in Tampa). During that meeting, it was agreed that
> two specific code list requirements in the Court Policy component of the
> ECF specification would be addressed in the next version of the
> specification (planned for 1st quarter 2008). The two requirements
> involve nested code lists and implementation-specific context
> restrictions. I've attached a document describing these requirements
> along with an alternative solution proposed by one of the ECF TC
> members.
> Members of the ECF TC have expressed concern with using genericode
> because it appears to add quite a bit of complexity for implementers to
> deal with. However, they are also concerned that the proposed
> alternative approach may be too restrictive and inflexible. Their desire
> is to find some middle ground where code lists may be expressed in a
> simplified manner while providing enough flexibility to meet the
> aforementioned requirements.
> I am looking at creating a couple of genericode examples, perhaps using
> the same sample data used in the alternative approach to facilitate
> comparative analysis. Any thoughts on this matter and assistance in
> creating properly formatted genericode examples would be most
> appreciated.
> Regards,
> Jim
> ===============
> Jim Harris
> National Center for State Courts
> 300 Newport Ave, Williamsburg, VA 23185
> jharris@ncsc.dni.us <mailto:jharris@ncsc.dni.us>  | (757) 259-1804

Anthony B. Coates
Senior Partner
Miley Watts LLP
Experts In Data
UK: +44 (20) 8816 7700, US: +1 (239) 344 7700
Mobile/Cell: +44 (79) 0543 9026
Data standards participant: genericode, ISO 20022 (ISO 15022 XML),  

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