RE: [dita-adoption] FW: [dita] DITA 1.2 elements needing styling and translatable strings

["Grosso, Paul" <pgrosso@ptc.com>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Su-Laine Yeo [mailto:su-laine.yeo@justsystems.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, 2010 August 04 20:46
> To: Grosso, Paul; DITA Adoption TC
> Subject: RE: [dita-adoption] FW: [dita] DITA 1.2 elements needing
> styling and translatable strings
> 
> I think we are converging. I take your point about the stylesheet,
> rather than the processor, determining which elements should be
> displayed with strings. The reason I referred to processors rather than
> stylesheets is that people often use and customize the stylesheets that
> come as part of the processor. To be more accurate, we are talking
> about recommendations for stylesheet developers rather than processor
> developers.
> 
> What I'm trying to produce is something very simple. I just want to be
> able to give stylesheet developers a list of elements and say, "here
> are the new elements and attributes for which we recommend you insert
> generated text, and here are some other elements you might want to pay
> attention to as well, because the default class-based styling probably
> won't meet expectations." Although not directly aimed at writers,
> writers would be able to figure out what it means for them. Can we
> produce this type of document?

If phrased as a best-practice explanation of the intended use of 
new DITA 1.2 elements, I'd have no problem with us producing such 
a document.

paul

> 
> Regards,
> Su-Laine
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Grosso, Paul [mailto:pgrosso@ptc.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 4:23 PM
> To: DITA Adoption TC
> Subject: RE: [dita-adoption] FW: [dita] DITA 1.2 elements needing
> styling and translatable strings
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Su-Laine Yeo [mailto:su-laine.yeo@justsystems.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, 2010 August 03 18:03
> > To: Grosso, Paul; DITA Adoption TC
> > Subject: RE: [dita-adoption] FW: [dita] DITA 1.2 elements needing
> > styling and translatable strings
> >
> > I think it's in the interests of the DITA community to have practical
> > consensus on which elements should be displayed with strings that are
> > inserted by the processor. For example, if processors don't insert
> text
> > such as "Skill level: " for the <perskill> element, then many writers
> > will write "Skill level: " into their content to make it appear in
> > output, which is fine until you have a processor that *does*
> > automatically insert this text into the element.
> 
> I don't know what you mean by "processor".  In my world view,
> generated text (aka inserted strings) are specified by a
> style sheet under user control, and processors insert strings
> depending on what the user's style sheet says.  It's not
> something we can dictate.
> 
> We could write a best practices that says, for example, that
> one should not put anything like "skill level" into one's
> content, but should rather style the <perskill> element so
> that is generates the appropriate string.
> 
> >
> > I don't object to the Adoption TC writing a paper that discusses
> > element semantics without making styling recommendations, however I
> > don't  have anything to contribute about this subject beyond what the
> > official language reference already says. If we want to produce such
> a
> > document, someone else would have to volunteer to write it.
> >
> > W.r.t. process, the DITA TC gave me an action item this morning to
> > submit the email below to the Adoption TC for our consideration. It
> is
> > of course up to the Adoption TC to decide what we want to do with the
> > idea, regardless of what the DITA TC thinks.
> 
> I completely agree--I hope my previous email didn't make it sound
> like I thought otherwise.  Since not everyone on the Adoption TC
> is on the DITA TC, I just wanted to clarify that the DITA TC was
> not necessarily "comfortable with producing a document containing
> recommendations on how to style new DITA 1.2 elements" because we
> did not have that discussion.
> 
> paul
> 
> >
> > Best,
> > Su-Laine
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Grosso, Paul [mailto:pgrosso@ptc.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:20 PM
> > To: DITA Adoption TC
> > Subject: RE: [dita-adoption] FW: [dita] DITA 1.2 elements needing
> > styling and translatable strings
> >
> > We need to discuss this.  I'm generally not comfortable with
> > recommending how to style elements (and the DITA TC did not endorse
> us
> > doing so this morning, it just said this issue wasn't one for the
> DITA
> > TC).
> >
> > It might be appropriate for the DITA Adoption TC to write a paper
> about
> > how new DITA 1.2 elements could be used which might touch on possible
> > styling, but we need to stop short of "recommended styling".
> >
> > paul
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Su-Laine Yeo [mailto:su-laine.yeo@justsystems.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, 2010 August 03 15:05
> > To: DITA Adoption TC
> > Subject: [dita-adoption] FW: [dita] DITA 1.2 elements needing styling
> > and translatable strings
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > The DITA TC discussed this issue this morning, and concluded that it
> > falls more under the mandate of the Adoption TC.
> >
> > Is the Adoption TC comfortable with producing a document containing
> > recommendations on how to style new DITA 1.2 elements? And if yes,
> does
> > anyone have a draft that can be used as a basis for the document? I
> > could probably come up with a draft if needed.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Su-Laine
> >
> >
> > Su-Laine Yeo
> > Solutions Consultant
> > JustSystems Canada, Inc.
> > Office: 778-327-6356
> > syeo@justsystems.com
> > www.justsystems.com
> > XMetaL Community Forums: http://forums.xmetal.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Su-Laine Yeo [mailto:su-laine.yeo@justsystems.com]
> > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 6:43 PM
> > To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: [dita] DITA 1.2 elements needing styling and translatable
> > strings
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> > Is there a list of new DITA elements and attributes for which
> > processors are expected to apply special styling and/or generated
> text?
> > For example, the new <note="warning"> attribute needs a new string
> > which needs to be translated. It seems that many of the new elements
> > for Learning & Training and Machine Industry also warrant some kind
> of
> > distinctive appearance, otherwise adopters will wonder why they are
> > bothering to use them.
> > Who is responsible for coming up with this list - the DITA TC , the
> > DITA Adoption TC, or each team that develops a DITA processor?
> > Su-Laine
> > Su-Laine Yeo
> > Solutions Consultant
> > JustSystems Canada, Inc.
> > Office: 778-327-6356
> > syeo@justsystems.com
> > www.justsystems.com
> > XMetaL Community Forums: http://forums.xmetal.com/
> 
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