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Subject: Agenda DITA Translation Subcommittee -- 14 August 2006


Agenda for Monday 14 August 2006

11:00 am - 12:00 am Eastern Standard Team DITA Technical Committee teleconference USA Toll Free Number: 866-566-4838 USA Toll Number:

+1-210-280-1707

PASSCODE: 185771

Roll Call

Accept Minutes from 7 August 2006 (enclosed for those who are not TC

members)

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita-translation/<http://ww

w.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita-translation/>

Attached for non-members.

3) Review open action items

--ACTION-- Please send review comments to the list of the draft Best Practices for Indexing

ACTION  -- Rodolfo to prepare an outline for this best practice document
    for translating DITA and submit to list for discussion at a future meeting.
    At that meeting, SC should agree on the outline.

    CONTINUE.

    --ACTION-- Everyone to read Rodolfo's XLIFF article[2] and
    provide feedback to Rodolfo this week via the mailing list.

    CONTINUE.

    --ACTION -- Next draft of the best practice for legacy TM (Gershon Joseph)

    CONTINUE. 

    --ACTION-- Rodolfo and Andrzej to investigate how translation tools can
    differentiate between these keyword elements as inline and standalone
    segments.

    CONTINUE.

4) Returning business:

4.1 Review the revision of the draft Best Practices for Indexing (JoAnn) . We cannot complete this item until the indexing group comes up with a decision on handling index range tags. See the changes marked in the current draft attached here.

New Business:

5.1 Discussion of Bryan Schnabel's feedback on the XLIFF article submitted by Rodolfo Raya. I’ve enclosed a copy of the article and Bryan's email.

5.2 Handling multi-language documents

Review the three examples provided by Gershon Joseph, Charles Pau, and Tony Jewtushenko ( see attached)

5.3 Andrzej provided examples of the need to change reusable building block to
    the group for discussion.

 5. New Business: (still on hold)

5.1 Handling multi-language documents

Charles Pau and others to provide examples to the list for discussion (multi-language documents best practice)

5.2 Andrjez provided examples of the need to change reusable building block to the group for discussion. (conref best practice)

 

 

JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD
President
Comtech Services, Inc.
710 Kipling Street, Suite 400
Denver CO 80215
303-232-7586
joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com

 

 

XML in localisation.doc

--- Begin Message ---
 
 

Best Regards,
Gershon

---
Gershon L Joseph
Member, OASIS DITA and DocBook Technical Committees
Director of Technology and Single Sourcing
Tech-Tav Documentation Ltd.

 


From: Tony Jewtushenko [mailto:tony.jewtushenko@productinnovator.com]
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 7:07 PM
To: charles_pau@us.ibm.com; gershon@tech-tav.com
Cc: bhertz@sdl.com; 'Bryan Schnabel'; christian.lieske@sap.com; cwong@idiominc.com; dita-translation@lists.oasis-open.org; dpooley@sdl.com; dschell@us.ibm.com; fsasaki@w3.org; 'Howard.Schwartz'; ishida@w3.org; 'Jennifer Linton'; KARA@CA.IBM.COM; mambrose@sdl.com; Peter.Reynolds@lionbridge.com; rfletcher@sdl.com; ysavourel@translate.com
Subject: RE: Examples of multilingual documents

Another example:

 

Boston Edison (electricity provider) sent out warnings about planned work resulting in electrical supply downtime in a variety of languages on the same flyer.  If memory serves me correctly, Spanish, French, Chinese, Russian, and Vietnamese instructions were printed on the same page.

 

Regards,

Tony

 

-----Original Message-----
From: charles_pau@us.ibm.com [mailto:charles_pau@us.ibm.com]
Sent: 05 June 2006 12:19
To: gershon@tech-tav.com
Cc: bhertz@sdl.com; 'Bryan Schnabel'; christian.lieske@sap.com; cwong@idiominc.com; dita-translation@lists.oasis-open.org; dpooley@sdl.com; dschell@us.ibm.com; fsasaki@w3.org; 'Howard.Schwartz'; ishida@w3.org; 'Jennifer Linton'; KARA@CA.IBM.COM; mambrose@sdl.com; Peter.Reynolds@lionbridge.com; rfletcher@sdl.com; tony.jewtushenko@productinnovator.com; ysavourel@translate.com
Subject: Re: Examples of multilingual documents

 


Here are a few more examples:

1.  Government forms (and instructions on filling out forms) and publications in many multilingual countries - Canada, Hong Kong, Singapore, Switzerland, Ireland, Malaysia, India.  Almost all immigration and custom forms (with the US as a major exception).
2.  Magazines in some countries.  Airlines inflight magazines (some have different sections while other have different languages on the same page - to save on reprinting pictures).  I recently flew on Singapore Airlines which has a very extensive on-demand movies, with movies from different countries.  On one page of their magazine they show movies from Hong Kong, Korea, India, France, and Japan, with descriptions in the corresponding language.



Regards,
Charles Pau
Director, Globalization Architecture and Technology
IBM
Tel. +1-617-751-4179   IBM Tie-Line 364-4116
e-mail: charles_pau@us.ibm.com, Notes mail: Charles Pau/Cambridge/IBM@Lotus
URL : http://www.ibm.com/software/globalization
"Tell the rich of the midnight sighing of the poor, lest heedlessness lead them into the path of destruction, and deprive them of the Tree of Wealth." - Bah’u’llh


"Gershon L Joseph" <gershon@tech-tav.com>

06/05/2006 03:15 AM

Please respond to
gershon

To

<dita-translation@lists.oasis-open.org>, <cwong@idiominc.com>, <mambrose@sdl.com>, <bhertz@sdl.com>, "'Bryan Schnabel'" <bryan.s.schnabel@tek.com>, <charles_pau@us.ibm.com>, <christian.lieske@sap.com>, <dpooley@sdl.com>, <dschell@us.ibm.com>, <fsasaki@w3.org>, <rfletcher@sdl.com>, "'Howard.Schwartz'" <Howard.Schwartz@trados.com>, "'Jennifer Linton'" <jennifer.linton@comtech-serv.com>, <Peter.Reynolds@lionbridge.com>, <ishida@w3.org>, <tony.jewtushenko@productinnovator.com>, <KARA@CA.IBM.COM>, <ysavourel@translate.com>

cc

 

Subject

Examples of multilingual documents

 

 

 




Following up on action items from last week, here are some multilingual
documents I've come across:

1. A single user manual containing the product's documentation in multiple
languages (in Israel, typically English, Hebrew, Arabic and several European
languages like French, German, Italian, Greek). I've often seen this with
manuals that accompany mobile phones, cameras, and small electronic
equipment. The medical industry also produces a single document (typically
printed on 2 sides of a single sheet of paper) that documents everything
about the medication in every language required by the law of the country
it's sold in. In Israel that includes Hebrew, Arabic, English, Russian, and
a few more I can't think of off-hand. In South Africa it used to be English,
Afrikaans, and several of the local African languages. I think South Africa
now has 11 official languages, so I expect medications to ship with
documentation in all 11 of them. Products sold in Canada probably require by
law documentation in at least French and English (I'm sure someone on the
group will correct me if I'm wrong).

2. A single-language document with a warnings section that contains a set of
warnings in 20 or more languages. For example, the manual would be entirely
in English or French, but the preface or first chapter would contain a
section that lists the same laser (or other) warnings in every language the
field engineer installing the product may speak. Typically, I've seen this
approach in telecommunications equipment (not end-user equipment, but
equipment sold to service providers to integrate into their networks).

If anyone has anything to add to this, or other examples, please discuss on
the list. I doubt we'll get to this item this week (since it's on the bottom
of this week's agenda), but hopefully we'll discuss this next week.

Best Regards,
Gershon

---
Gershon L Joseph
Member, OASIS DITA and DocBook Technical Committees
Director of Technology and Single Sourcing
Tech-Tav Documentation Ltd.
office: +972-8-974-1569
mobile: +972-57-314-1170
http://www.tech-tav.com


--- End Message ---
DITA Translation Subcommittee Meeting Minutes: 7 August 2006

(Recorded by Gershon Joseph <gershon@tech-tav.com>)

The DITA Translation Subcommittee met on Monday, 7 August 2006 at 08:00am PT
for 45 minutes.

1.  Roll call

    Present:
        Robert Anderson
        Don Day
        Kevin Farwell
        JoAnn Hackos
        Gershon Joseph
        Rodolfo Raya
        David Walters

    Regrets:

    Special guests from DITA TC:
        Bruce Esrig

2.  Accept the minutes[1] of the previous meeting.

    Accepted.

3.  Review open action items:

    --ACTION-- Please send review comments to the list of the draft Best 
    Practices for Indexing

    --ACTION-- Gershon to send all input to list

    COMPLETED.

    ACTION  -- Rodolfo to prepare an outline for this best practice document 
    for translating DITA and submit to list for discussion at a future meeting. 
    At that meeting, SC should agree on the outline.

    CONTINUE.

    --ACTION-- Everyone to read Rodolfo's XLIFF article[2] and
    provide feedback to Rodolfo this week via the mailing list.

    CONTINUE.

    --ACTION -- Next draft of the best practice for legacy TM (Gershon Joseph)

    CONTINUE.

    --ACTION-- Robert and JoAnn to work on wording of note to keyword element 
    noting that it is considered inline when inside topics, but as standalone 
    segments when inside <keywords> (in prolog).

    COMPLETED. [JoAnn to send new wording]

    --ACTION-- Rodolfo and Andrzej to investigate how translation tools can 
    differentiate between these keyword elements as inline and standalone 
    segments.

    CONTINUE.

4.  Returning business:

4.1 Review the revision of the draft Best Practices for Indexing.

    Yves sent email to JoAnn on wording change. Discussed and accepted.

    Yves also suggested we remove the reference to XLIFF, and no one objected
    to this change.

    Additional discussions which led to changes to the text.

    JoAnn to add an example for range in map and range in topic.

5.  New Business: (still on hold)

5.1 Discuss the paper on Rodolfo's web site to be used as a source for an XLIFF 
    best practice document.

    Rodolfo to prepare a draft outline for next meeting.

    Everyone to review the XLIFF article and send comments to the email list.

    Suggestion to include specialized DITA (maybe FAQ) in the XLIFF test and 
    include this in the white paper. Include URL to point to download page
    of dita-ot and look for latest version of apiref download.

5.1 Handling multi-language documents

    Review the three examples provided by Gershon Joseph, Charles Pau, and 
    Tony Jewtushenko

    Need statement on handling of conref and handling of multilingual documents
    (may be combined) JoAnn to ask Charles if he'll write a first draft.

    If anyone has additional examples please send to list. Also use case examples.

5.2 Andrzej provided examples of the need to change reusable building block to 
    the group for discussion. 

6.  Announcements


-- Meeting adjourned at 08:45am PT --

----
[1] http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita-translation/200607/msg00021.html
[2] http://www.heartsome.org/EN/xliff.html
--- Begin Message ---
Title: Message
Hi Rodolfo,
 
JoAnn asked for feedback on your XLIFF article.  It's great!  I think it's lean, concise, and I think it conveys the concept wonderfully.  I enjoyed it very much.
 
The only note I would make is that its approach covers one of the two methods for processing XLIFF, the "minimalist approach."  I might point out for the benefit of others on the mailing list that the "minimalist" and "maximalist" approaches are defined in the Committee Draft of the XLIFF 1.2 Representation Guide for HTML
(http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/19106/cd-xliff-profile-html-1.2-20060516.zip), in section 2.5. Scope of Extraction.
 
Your article expertly shows the minimalist approach, where (as it says in the representation guide), ". . . the XLIFF document contains strictly the parts needed for the translation, while most of the non-localizable parts are stored in the Skeleton file." 
 
I wonder if, when you begin to prepare your outline for best practices for translating DITA, you'll consider mentioning the possibility of also using the maximalist approach.  Again for the benefit of others on this list, the HTML representation guide describes the maximalist approach for processing HTML:
 
In the maximalist approach the XLIFF document tries to include as much original
information as possible. In fact, an ideal XLIFF representation in this view is
to be able to re-create the original HTML file completely from the XLIFF document.
Such approach could be useful, for example, for tools that want to display the
final HTML from the XLIFF data, using only XSL transformations.
I guess choosing the approach would depend on the complexity of the DITA documents.  The sample files Don pointed me to (http://dita-ot.sourceforge.net), for example, seemed like good candidates for the maximalist method.
 
While for HTML, we  recommended to use a maximalist approach as often as possible, to insure a better interoperability between XLIFF documents generated  with different filters. It might not be as clear cut for DITA (I don't know).  I look forward to seeing how you choose to go in your outline.
 
Thanks,
 
Bryan
 
-----Original Message-----
From: JoAnn Hackos [mailto:joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com]
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 6:31 AM
To: dita-translation@lists.oasis-open.org; cwong@idiominc.com; mambrose@sdl.com; bhertz@sdl.com; Bryan Schnabel; charles_pau@us.ibm.com; christian.lieske@sap.com; dpooley@sdl.com; dschell@us.ibm.com; esrig@lucent.com; fsasaki@w3.org; rfletcher@sdl.com; Howard.Schwartz; Jennifer Linton; ishida@w3.org; tony.jewtushenko@productinnovator.com; KARA@CA.IBM.COM; ysavourel@translate.com
Subject: Translation SC Agenda Monday 7 August

We're trying again!

Agenda for Monday August 2006

11:00 am - 12:00 am Eastern Standard Team DITA Technical Committee teleconference USA Toll Free Number: 866-566-4838 USA Toll Number:

+1-210-280-1707

PASSCODE: 185771

Roll Call

Accept Minutes from 24 July 2006 (enclosed for those who are not TC

members)

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita-translation/<http://ww

w.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita-translation/>

Attached for non-members.

3) Review open action items

--ACTION-- Please send review comments to the list of the draft Best Practices for Indexing

ACTION  -- Rodolfo to prepare an outline for this best practice document
    for translating DITA and submit to list for discussion at a future meeting.
    At that meeting, SC should agree on the outline.

    CONTINUE.

    --ACTION-- Everyone to read Rodolfo's XLIFF article[2] and
    provide feedback to Rodolfo this week via the mailing list.

    CONTINUE.

    --ACTION -- Next draft of the best practice for legacy TM (Gershon Joseph)

    CONTINUE.

    --ACTION-- Robert and JoAnn to work on wording of note to keyword element
    noting that it is considered inline when inside topics, but as standalone
    segments when inside <keywords> (in prolog).

    CONTINUE. (I think this is no longer needed. JTH)

    --ACTION-- Rodolfo and Andrzej to investigate how translation tools can
    differentiate between these keyword elements as inline and standalone
    segments.

    CONTINUE.

    --ACTION-- JoAnn to take to TC our concerns about both the start and end
    index range markers holding the index term.

    COMPLETED.

4) Returning business:

4.1 Review the revision of the draft Best Practices for Indexing (JoAnn)

See the enclosed draft.

New Business:

5.1 Discussion of XLIFF article submitted by Rodolfo Raya. I’ve enclosed a copy of the article with this agenda.

5.2 Handling multi-language documents

Review the three examples provided by Gershon Joseph, Charles Pau, and Tony Jewtushenko ( see attached)

5.3 Andrzej provided examples of the need to change reusable building block to
    the group for discussion.

 5. New Business: (still on hold)

5.1 Handling multi-language documents

Charles Pau and others to provide examples to the list for discussion (multi-language documents best practice)

5.2 Andrjez provided examples of the need to change reusable building block to the group for discussion. (conref best practice)

 

 

JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD
President
Comtech Services, Inc.
710 Kipling Street, Suite 400
Denver CO 80215
303-232-7586
joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com

 

 
--- End Message ---

Best Practice for Indexing DITA topics.doc



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