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Subject: Re: [dita] Ruby Proposal: Response from Felix Sasaki

I got a response from Felix. The net of his response is that no-one has yet
figured out a complete markup solution to the complex typographic
requirements outlined in this document:


Thus, there is as yet no general consensus on the proper Ruby markup design.

That suggests that our best course of action is to avoid the issue for now
and see what settles out. I can also spend a bit more time reviewing the
referenced document and see if I can contribute to the design discussion in
HTML5 or wherever it's happening.



On 8/26/13 12:43 PM, "Nancy Harrison" <nharrison@infobridge-solutions.com>

>         Submitter's message
>  Note action items:
> 1. All TC members need to review the release management proposal (link below)
> 2. Eliot will contact Felix Sasaki re: status of HTML5 wrt ruby elements
> Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
> Tuesday, 20 August 2013
> Recorded by N. Harrison
> regrets:   Deb Bissantz
> Standing Business
> =================
> Minutes from last meeting:
> https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201308/msg00012.html (6 August,
> Nancy Harrison) 
> Proposed by Kris, seconded by Joann, approved by TC
> Subcommittee Reports:
> DITA Adoption TC Sept
> Announcements:
> none
> Business
> ========
> 1. DITA 1.3 progress
>  Progress: No changes
>  Update on current deadlines:
> http://chris.nitchie.com/trellotrack/#511a73d76ee890a51c0007ed
>  Trello Board: https://trello.com/b/gPKH0OcF
> Priority for Aug is to finish stage 2 proposals
> 2. DITA 1.3 proposals, stage 2:
> http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/DITA_1.3_Proposals-stage2
> Special meetings were held last week on the proposals from the Help SC (13060,
> 13061) and the troubleshooting topic proposal (13097). (The results of the
> troubleshooting topic meeting are covered below, with the discussion of
> 13097.)
> Help SC proposals meeting (Stan's overview) included Stan, MichaelP, Robert,
> Kris, and Tony Self, the author of the proposals. As a result of the meeting,
> the Context ID proposal, 13060, will be modified to implement the change as an
> expansion to resourceid, rather than a specialization of it.  Tony Self has
> written up the changes and submitted them for review
> For 13061 (window placement), the conclusion of the meeting was to let that
> proposal stand as written.
> Ready for vote: 
> Proposal 13106: Updates to learning domain interactions elements
>  https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201308/msg00019.html
> Proposed by JohnH, 2nded by Scott, approved unanimously
> Yes votes: Anderson, Day, Doherty, Eberlein, Hackos, Hamilton, Harrison,
> Helfinstine, Hudson, Kimber, Magliery, Nitchie, Warman
> Proposal 13112: RelaxNG for DITA vocabulary (Kimber)
>  https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201306/msg00082.html (HTML)
>  https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201306/msg00084.html (PDF)
>  https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201306/msg00083.html (DITA)
> Proposed by Eliot, 2nded by DickH, approved unanimously
> Yes votes: Anderson, Day, Doherty, Eberlein, Hackos, Hamilton, Harrison,
> Helfinstine, Hudson, Kimber, Magliery, Nitchie, Warman
> Proposal 13061: UA Window Definition (Help SC)
>  https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201307/msg00103.html (DITA,
> uploaded 31 July)
>  https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201307/msg00104.html (HTML,
> uploaded 31 July)
> Proposed by stan, 2nded by Joann, approved unanimously
> Yes votes: Anderson, Day, Doherty, Eberlein, Hackos, Hamilton, Harrison,
> Helfinstine, Hudson, Kimber, Magliery, Nitchie, Warman
> Ready for discussion:
> Proposal 13097: New troubleshooting topic
>  https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201308/msg00042.html (DITA)
>  https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201308/msg00041.html (HTML)
>  https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201308/msg00040.html (PDF)
>  https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201308/msg00039.html (DITA-OT
> plug-in) 
> Bob Thomas reported; during the mid-week special meeting, one major conclusion
> was that the current IBM troubleshooting structure, or at least trying to
> maintain compatibility with that structure, was having a negative impact on
> creating an appropriate new structure. As a result, Michael and Robert
> released the requirement that #13097 had to be backwards compatibles with
> IBM's structure.  Having done that, they immediately realized that a number of
> elements could be tightened up. The only question left is whether we'll need
> titles be on the 3 section-type elements.  The TechComm SC has agreed to
> remove titles from the content model in those elements.
> - Kris; changing the backwards compatibility requirement made this much more
> OOTB usable.
> - Robert; maintaining compatibility meant that users had to choose between 2
> ways to do anything; they would have been very confused.
> - Kris; I highly recommend that folks work with Bob's DITA-OT plugin to test
> the content models.
> Resolution; vote next week
> 3. DITA 1.3 proposals, stage 3:
> https://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/DITA_1.3_Proposals-stage3
> Stage 3 review process: Responsibilities of proposal owner and reviewers
>  https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201306/msg00126.html (Eberlein, 25
> June) 
> Ready for discussion
> Proposal 13118: New domain for Ruby markup (Kimber; reviewed by Harrison and
> Hamilton)
> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/download.php/50070/proposal
> -13118-rubydomain-stage-3.dita.pdf
>  {*} https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201308/msg00015.html
> (recommendation from JoAnn)
> - Kris; where do we stand on this; should we move forward or not?
> - Eliot; We either go forward with this, with risk that HTML5 will change away
> from it, or postpone it.  Since it's already in D4P, it's already available to
> anyone who needs it, and that can be updated without having to go through the
> OASIS process.
> - Joann; Felix, the Japanese expert on the TechComm SC, recommended that it
> wait.
> - Eliot; There is, of course a question as to whether HTML5 will ever be
> finalized...
> - Don; they've committed to not changing the number
> [discussion on lack of stability of HTML5 - it can and will change at any
> time]
> - Don; do we want to track HTML5 or not? as a standard or a transformational
> target?
> Resolution; Eliot will contact Felix on status of ruby in HTML5
> Ready for vote: 
>  none 
> 4, New ITEM: [dita-techcomm] DITA 3.0 Stage 2 release management (13102)
> proposal question
>  {*} https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201308/msg00009.html
> Stan gave overview; (Tom Cihak came on later, after having had some trouble
> connecting) Tom & he SC identified  areas that have architectural issues (e.g.
> what's a list vs. an editable list? should the information be in booklists, or
> a tight little specialization of prolog?)
> - Kris; is SC now thinking in terms of a smaller proposal?
> - TomC; the plan is to specialize prolog, plus put in a placeholder for
> elements that aren't processed by the DITA-OT, but could be harvested
> downstream by a processor. Booklists was suggested, but booklists are
> published in the document, and this content ordinarily wouldn't be.
> - Eliot; anything done for this shouldn't be specific to bookmap, should work
> for maps generally.
> - Don; notes need to be collected where they lie or in some gathering place.
> - Joann; one of our major use cases was medical devices; those manufacturers
> have to create a report on every note within their documents.
> - TomC; we're doing same thing in Frescale; we're currently collecting notes
> in separate topics, but would prefer the changes to be within the actual topic
> - Kris; thanks to the SC for the work on the proposal; note that within the
> 1.3 schedule, it's coming late to the TC as a whole.
> - Don; the problem is really in 2 parts, which we need to separate in order to
> make progress.
> 1. is there a complete way to indicate metadata?
> 2. how do we indicate collection and use of that metadata?
> - Joann asked for a vote on the proposal.
> - Kris; a complete version of the proposal hasn't been fully discussed by the
> TC, so we can't yet vote on it. Depending on how quickly the proposal could be
> completed and brought before the TC, it might or might not make it into 1.3.
> Other important functionality - e.g. Lightweight DITA - has already been
> separated from 1.3.
> - Don; Let's we give this proposal one extra week to get completely cleaned
> up. - Kris; We can do that, but we need to avoid putting 'half-baked stuff'
> into 1.3; we're still feeling the impact of having done that at 1.2.
> - Don; It could alternatively be put out as 'committee notes' or third party
> specializations
> - Kris; As dita grows, we have to draw lines between standard and secondary
> specializations.
> ActionItem; all TC members; please look at this proposal very carefully
> Eliot asked about the process for stage 3 proposals that are finished, in
> terms of submitting them to KAVI.  Kris and Robert will invetigate this and we
> can discuss it next time.
> meeting closed at 11:56
> -- Nancy Harrison
>   Document Name: DITA TC Meeting Minutes 20 Aug 2013
> <https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/document.php?document_id=5
> 0445> 
>  No description provided.
>  Download Latest Revision
> <https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/download.php/50445/latest/
> minutes20130820.txt>
>  Public Download Link
> <https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/document.php?document_id=50445&wg_abbre
> v=dita> 
>  Submitter: Nancy Harrison
>  Group: OASIS Darwin Information Typing Architecture (DITA) TC
>  Folder: Meeting Notes
>  Date submitted: 2013-08-26 10:43:05

Eliot Kimber
Senior Solutions Architect, RSI Content Solutions
"Bringing Strategy, Content, and Technology Together"
Main: 512.554.9368
Book: DITA For Practitioners, from XML Press,

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