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Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin

a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is closing
that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)

Can you please explain what "ebXML v3" is?


Joseph Chiusano
Booz Allen Hamilton
Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World

> -----Original Message-----
> From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 AM
> To: Monica J. Martin; David RR Webber; Duane Nickull; 
> dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com; 
> tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org; 
> ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com; 
> golsen@contivo.com; John Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; 
> tdean@criticaltech.net; ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> Thanks Monica and thanks to all for the warm welcome.
> I have copied a number of folks on this, because I would like 
> to enlist their assistance for the ebSOA editing activities 
> or just for ideas as we move forward. Also Jamie and Dale 
> asked me about addressing the ebXML-jc group. I had a good 
> conversation with Jamie the other night, and got some 
> direction from both him and from Duane. I would very much 
> like to address the ebXML-jc, and get a braindump how the two 
> groups need to dovetail. I'll plan on being on the call next 
> Wed if allowed.
> My primary vision for the ebSOA group is to move forward with 
> the work from the charter (pattern catalog) and act as a 
> facilitator towards interoperability among the upcoming 
> business process frameworks (WS*, ebXML and SemWeb are three 
> that are working to gain dominance). The request-response 
> model is a very simplistic view that isn't currently mapping 
> well onto the true complexity that large industries have 
> developed in their shared business processes. For example, no 
> one will argue today that inventory visibility for the 
> automotive industry is a request-response model between two 
> partners. Healthcare is another area that is very complex, 
> and requires multiple interactions between large numbers of 
> process participants to complete the information exchange, 
> with forks and decisions during the execution.
> The other reality is that process participants require 
> constant realtime feeds of information from many points in 
> the process, which are owned and offered by various companies 
> of various sizes and IT capabilities. 
> This spells out, to me at least, the need for a network 
> operating framework, where processes run in an "app fabric" 
> that is dependable and very open. Then we can layer event 
> causation techniques and other things like shared industry 
> process B.A.M. on top. The network REALLY IS the computer....
> To accomplish this kind of integration, I believe that we need to:
> a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 
> is closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
> b) gather and document, then publish and evangelize, real 
> world use cases that prove SOA principles using ebXML and WS 
> and shine a light on successful implementations
> c) include both WS* and ebXML patterns, along with SemWeb and 
> agent patterns (no rocks thrown, please - the SemWeb/Agent 
> stuff is the long-term target)
> d) work with WS-I and the specs to ensure that we have 
> consistent direction towards convergence
> My belief is that the entire IT industry is poised on the 
> verge of a major break in what I think is so far a 
> stagnation. The potential of the internet is clear - and 
> everyone is aware that it's potential is more than just human 
> readable web pages. We all feel it, business has been 
> preparing (somewhat) for it, and the engineers all want to build it.
> However, this level of information integration won't happen unless:
> a) the path to implementation of standards based messaging 
> between partner, or producer/consumer, applications, is very clear
> b) all players involved in complex processes can participate
> c) the integration effort doesn't involve such a long, drawn 
> out mapping effort everytime (this kills progress on the 
> entire movement)
> The industry will continue to stall until we solve some of 
> these problems. I would like to help by completing the 
> patterns and the catalog of patterns, and publish the use 
> cases to describe it. There also needs to be a major outreach 
> effort to all industry groups that are building shared 
> business processes (which by the way, look much more complex 
> than simple request-response models).
> That's it, I guess....
> John
> 313.930.5323
> Monica J. Martin wrote:
> > John,
> > On a related point (to ebSOA that is), previously Matt 
> MacKenzie was 
> > the ebSOA representative to the ebXML-jc.  Perhaps you 
> could provide 
> > some insight into your overall vision of the ebSOA TC based on its 
> > original charter. I've asked Jamie Clark to give an update on ebSOA 
> > and SOA TC efforts. In the past, it was anticipated that 
> ebSOA would 
> > assist in defining the next generation architecture for ebXML. Your 
> > thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~
> john c hardin
> sanghainteractive.com
> 313.930.5323 cell
> mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
> "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in 
> the image of a global village."
>      Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962

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