Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin

["David Webber \(XML\)" <david@drrw.info>]

Joe,

That is exactly what we are qualifiying here in ebSOA!!!

We have BPSS V2, ebMS V3, Registey V3 - but no updated
architecture that documents the new capabilities that all this
enables.

Thanks, DW

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
To: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com>; "Monica J. Martin"
<Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>; "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>; "Duane
Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>;
<jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com>; <tony.scott@gm.com>; <john.l.jackson@gm.com>;
<psnack@aiag.org>; <ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com>; <ronschuldt@msn.com>;
<golsen@contivo.com>; "John Casillas" <johnc@mbproject.org>;
<mjyader@comcast.net>; <tdean@criticaltech.net>;
<ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; "James Bryce Clark"
<jamie.clark@oasis-open.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:29 AM
Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin


<Quote>
a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is closing
that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
</Quote>

Can you please explain what "ebXML v3" is?

Thanks,
Joe

Joseph Chiusano
Booz Allen Hamilton
Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World


> -----Original Message-----
> From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 AM
> To: Monica J. Martin; David RR Webber; Duane Nickull;
> dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com;
> tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org;
> ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com;
> golsen@contivo.com; John Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net;
> tdean@criticaltech.net; ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
>
> Thanks Monica and thanks to all for the warm welcome.
>
> I have copied a number of folks on this, because I would like
> to enlist their assistance for the ebSOA editing activities
> or just for ideas as we move forward. Also Jamie and Dale
> asked me about addressing the ebXML-jc group. I had a good
> conversation with Jamie the other night, and got some
> direction from both him and from Duane. I would very much
> like to address the ebXML-jc, and get a braindump how the two
> groups need to dovetail. I'll plan on being on the call next
> Wed if allowed.
>
> My primary vision for the ebSOA group is to move forward with
> the work from the charter (pattern catalog) and act as a
> facilitator towards interoperability among the upcoming
> business process frameworks (WS*, ebXML and SemWeb are three
> that are working to gain dominance). The request-response
> model is a very simplistic view that isn't currently mapping
> well onto the true complexity that large industries have
> developed in their shared business processes. For example, no
> one will argue today that inventory visibility for the
> automotive industry is a request-response model between two
> partners. Healthcare is another area that is very complex,
> and requires multiple interactions between large numbers of
> process participants to complete the information exchange,
> with forks and decisions during the execution.
>
> The other reality is that process participants require
> constant realtime feeds of information from many points in
> the process, which are owned and offered by various companies
> of various sizes and IT capabilities.
> This spells out, to me at least, the need for a network
> operating framework, where processes run in an "app fabric"
> that is dependable and very open. Then we can layer event
> causation techniques and other things like shared industry
> process B.A.M. on top. The network REALLY IS the computer....
>
> To accomplish this kind of integration, I believe that we need to:
>
> a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3
> is closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
>
> b) gather and document, then publish and evangelize, real
> world use cases that prove SOA principles using ebXML and WS
> and shine a light on successful implementations
>
> c) include both WS* and ebXML patterns, along with SemWeb and
> agent patterns (no rocks thrown, please - the SemWeb/Agent
> stuff is the long-term target)
>
> d) work with WS-I and the specs to ensure that we have
> consistent direction towards convergence
>
> My belief is that the entire IT industry is poised on the
> verge of a major break in what I think is so far a
> stagnation. The potential of the internet is clear - and
> everyone is aware that it's potential is more than just human
> readable web pages. We all feel it, business has been
> preparing (somewhat) for it, and the engineers all want to build it.
>
> However, this level of information integration won't happen unless:
>
> a) the path to implementation of standards based messaging
> between partner, or producer/consumer, applications, is very clear
>
> b) all players involved in complex processes can participate
>
> c) the integration effort doesn't involve such a long, drawn
> out mapping effort everytime (this kills progress on the
> entire movement)
>
> The industry will continue to stall until we solve some of
> these problems. I would like to help by completing the
> patterns and the catalog of patterns, and publish the use
> cases to describe it. There also needs to be a major outreach
> effort to all industry groups that are building shared
> business processes (which by the way, look much more complex
> than simple request-response models).
>
> That's it, I guess....
>
> John
> 313.930.5323
>
> Monica J. Martin wrote:
> > John,
> > On a related point (to ebSOA that is), previously Matt
> MacKenzie was
> > the ebSOA representative to the ebXML-jc.  Perhaps you
> could provide
> > some insight into your overall vision of the ebSOA TC based on its
> > original charter. I've asked Jamie Clark to give an update on ebSOA
> > and SOA TC efforts. In the past, it was anticipated that
> ebSOA would
> > assist in defining the next generation architecture for ebXML. Your
> > thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~
> john c hardin
> sanghainteractive.com
> 313.930.5323 cell
> mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
>
> "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in
> the image of a global village."
>
>      Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
>
>
>