Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin

["David Webber \(XML\)" <david@drrw.info>]

John,

To paraphrase all this (!) - we need to layout
our stall in the marketplace.  I'm seeing the critical
immediate need is to get an ebSOA draft document
out there that teaches and instructs on the patterns
that the new ebXML can now enable. I like
to call this Knowledge-Based Services (KBS).

We have moved beyond ebXML V1 in very
significant ways - BPSS V2 provides key new
capabilities to do multi-party / multi-step
integration coupled with supporting context aware
dynamic processes.  This then ties into the
enhanced ebMS V3 with push/pull, synch/asynch
and integrated content validation services with
rule driven processing.  And then the Registry V3
adds punch with event management, content
sharing and the CPA ties this together as a
formal business agreement with roles and context
for participants.  CAM gives you the ability to
couple this seamlessly into the application
integration layer.

What we have here is the realization of the
paradigm shift that XML has been seeking to
bring to fruition - where the information flows
are completely scripted in XML.  Getting people
to understand that capability set is the challenge.
We now have the parts to do this.

Once we have spelled this out - then we will
bring to our fold the WS-I and others.  Right
now they have little or no sense of how and
why ebXML and the powerful business
paradigm it embodies is on their future path
at all because they are off solving different
problems - but learning all the old insights
that we already have enshrined in ebXML
from the beginning!

DW
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com>
To: "Monica J. Martin" <Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>; "David RR Webber"
<david@drrw.info>; "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>;
<dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>; <jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com>;
<tony.scott@gm.com>; <john.l.jackson@gm.com>; <psnack@aiag.org>;
<ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com>; <ronschuldt@msn.com>; <golsen@contivo.com>; "John
Casillas" <johnc@mbproject.org>; <mjyader@comcast.net>;
<tdean@criticaltech.net>; <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; "James Bryce Clark"
<jamie.clark@oasis-open.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 AM
Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin


> Thanks Monica and thanks to all for the warm welcome.
>
> I have copied a number of folks on this, because I would like to enlist
> their assistance for the ebSOA editing activities or just for ideas as
> we move forward. Also Jamie and Dale asked me about addressing the
> ebXML-jc group. I had a good conversation with Jamie the other night,
> and got some direction from both him and from Duane. I would very much
> like to address the ebXML-jc, and get a braindump how the two groups
> need to dovetail. I'll plan on being on the call next Wed if allowed.
>
> My primary vision for the ebSOA group is to move forward with the work
> from the charter (pattern catalog) and act as a facilitator towards
> interoperability among the upcoming business process frameworks (WS*,
> ebXML and SemWeb are three that are working to gain dominance). The
> request-response model is a very simplistic view that isn't currently
> mapping well onto the true complexity that large industries have
> developed in their shared business processes. For example, no one will
> argue today that inventory visibility for the automotive industry is a
> request-response model between two partners. Healthcare is another area
> that is very complex, and requires multiple interactions between large
> numbers of process participants to complete the information exchange,
> with forks and decisions during the execution.
>
> The other reality is that process participants require constant realtime
> feeds of information from many points in the process, which are owned
> and offered by various companies of various sizes and IT capabilities.
> This spells out, to me at least, the need for a network operating
> framework, where processes run in an "app fabric" that is dependable and
> very open. Then we can layer event causation techniques and other things
> like shared industry process B.A.M. on top. The network REALLY IS the
> computer....
>
> To accomplish this kind of integration, I believe that we need to:
>
> a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is closing
> that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
>
> b) gather and document, then publish and evangelize, real world use
> cases that prove SOA principles using ebXML and WS and shine a light on
> successful implementations
>
> c) include both WS* and ebXML patterns, along with SemWeb and agent
> patterns (no rocks thrown, please - the SemWeb/Agent stuff is the
> long-term target)
>
> d) work with WS-I and the specs to ensure that we have consistent
> direction towards convergence
>
> My belief is that the entire IT industry is poised on the verge of a
> major break in what I think is so far a stagnation. The potential of the
> internet is clear - and everyone is aware that it's potential is more
> than just human readable web pages. We all feel it, business has been
> preparing (somewhat) for it, and the engineers all want to build it.
>
> However, this level of information integration won't happen unless:
>
> a) the path to implementation of standards based messaging between
> partner, or producer/consumer, applications, is very clear
>
> b) all players involved in complex processes can participate
>
> c) the integration effort doesn't involve such a long, drawn out mapping
> effort everytime (this kills progress on the entire movement)
>
> The industry will continue to stall until we solve some of these
> problems. I would like to help by completing the patterns and the
> catalog of patterns, and publish the use cases to describe it. There
> also needs to be a major outreach effort to all industry groups that are
> building shared business processes (which by the way, look much more
> complex than simple request-response models).
>
> That's it, I guess....
>
> John
> 313.930.5323
>
> Monica J. Martin wrote:
> > John,
> > On a related point (to ebSOA that is), previously Matt MacKenzie was the
> > ebSOA representative to the ebXML-jc.  Perhaps you could provide some
> > insight into your overall vision of the ebSOA TC based on its original
> > charter. I've asked Jamie Clark to give an update on ebSOA and SOA TC
> > efforts. In the past, it was anticipated that ebSOA would assist in
> > defining the next generation architecture for ebXML. Your thoughts would
> > be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> -- 
> ~~~~~~~~~
> john c hardin
> sanghainteractive.com
> 313.930.5323 cell
> mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
>
> "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the image of
> a global village."
>
>      Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
>
>
>
>