RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin

["Dale Moberg" <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>]

Mr. Chiusano,

ebXML Messaging is working on a version 3 whose expressed goals have
been specified for some time now as making use of newly (and perhaps
nearly) approved specifications such as WSS, the OASIS Reliability
specification, and possibly others. This was the version 3 direction
that I referred to in a note to John Hardin and that is often called for
short  "convergence." There may indeed be other version 3 specifications
within ebXML eventually or soon. The goal of maintaining "loosely
coupled, highly aligned" specifications within ebXML can be expected to
percolate through ebXML versions of other OASIS specifications
eventually, and the ebXML JC serves as a forum for how this coordination
and alignment can occur.

If there are people being misled, it is through their own imaginative
interpretations, possibly fed by a lack of information and a chorus of
eager finger pointers.

Cordially
Dale Moberg

-----Original Message-----
From: Chiusano Joseph [mailto:chiusano_joseph@bah.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:26 AM
To: David Webber (XML); john hardin; Monica J. Martin; Duane Nickull;
Dale Moberg; Jeff Turpin; tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com;
psnack@aiag.org; ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com;
golsen@contivo.com; John Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net;
tdean@criticaltech.net; ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin

Yes - thanks David. My point was that, as written in a public forum, a
reader could interpret the quote I highlighted below - since it had no
additional context - as meaning that there is an ebXML v3 - which
implies that there is an ebXML v2 as well (is that the case? I have not
seen this "officially" spoken of).

Vague statements such as this - though well-meant and unintentional -
tend to perpetuate the very problems that I believe this TC is trying to
overcome (the problem of confusion and misinformation with regards to
these initiatives). And when they come from well-meaning TC chairs, the
problem is magnified.

Thanks,
Joe

Joseph Chiusano
Booz Allen Hamilton
Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Webber (XML) [mailto:david@drrw.info] 
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:23 AM
> To: Chiusano Joseph; john hardin; Monica J. Martin; Duane 
> Nickull; dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; 
> jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com; tony.scott@gm.com; 
> john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org; 
> ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com; 
> golsen@contivo.com; John Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; 
> tdean@criticaltech.net; ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> 
> Joe,
> 
> That is exactly what we are qualifiying here in ebSOA!!!
> 
> We have BPSS V2, ebMS V3, Registey V3 - but no updated 
> architecture that documents the new capabilities that all 
> this enables.
> 
> Thanks, DW
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
> To: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com>; "Monica J. Martin"
> <Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>; "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>; 
> "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; 
> <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>; <jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com>; 
> <tony.scott@gm.com>; <john.l.jackson@gm.com>; 
> <psnack@aiag.org>; <ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com>; 
> <ronschuldt@msn.com>; <golsen@contivo.com>; "John Casillas" 
> <johnc@mbproject.org>; <mjyader@comcast.net>; 
> <tdean@criticaltech.net>; <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; 
> "James Bryce Clark"
> <jamie.clark@oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:29 AM
> Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> 
> 
> <Quote>
> a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 
> is closing
> that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
> </Quote>
> 
> Can you please explain what "ebXML v3" is?
> 
> Thanks,
> Joe
> 
> Joseph Chiusano
> Booz Allen Hamilton
> Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 AM
> > To: Monica J. Martin; David RR Webber; Duane Nickull;
> > dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com;
> > tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org;
> > ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com;
> > golsen@contivo.com; John Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net;
> > tdean@criticaltech.net; ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James 
> Bryce Clark
> > Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> >
> > Thanks Monica and thanks to all for the warm welcome.
> >
> > I have copied a number of folks on this, because I would like
> > to enlist their assistance for the ebSOA editing activities
> > or just for ideas as we move forward. Also Jamie and Dale
> > asked me about addressing the ebXML-jc group. I had a good
> > conversation with Jamie the other night, and got some
> > direction from both him and from Duane. I would very much
> > like to address the ebXML-jc, and get a braindump how the two
> > groups need to dovetail. I'll plan on being on the call next
> > Wed if allowed.
> >
> > My primary vision for the ebSOA group is to move forward with
> > the work from the charter (pattern catalog) and act as a
> > facilitator towards interoperability among the upcoming
> > business process frameworks (WS*, ebXML and SemWeb are three
> > that are working to gain dominance). The request-response
> > model is a very simplistic view that isn't currently mapping
> > well onto the true complexity that large industries have
> > developed in their shared business processes. For example, no
> > one will argue today that inventory visibility for the
> > automotive industry is a request-response model between two
> > partners. Healthcare is another area that is very complex,
> > and requires multiple interactions between large numbers of
> > process participants to complete the information exchange,
> > with forks and decisions during the execution.
> >
> > The other reality is that process participants require
> > constant realtime feeds of information from many points in
> > the process, which are owned and offered by various companies
> > of various sizes and IT capabilities.
> > This spells out, to me at least, the need for a network
> > operating framework, where processes run in an "app fabric"
> > that is dependable and very open. Then we can layer event
> > causation techniques and other things like shared industry
> > process B.A.M. on top. The network REALLY IS the computer....
> >
> > To accomplish this kind of integration, I believe that we need to:
> >
> > a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3
> > is closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
> >
> > b) gather and document, then publish and evangelize, real
> > world use cases that prove SOA principles using ebXML and WS
> > and shine a light on successful implementations
> >
> > c) include both WS* and ebXML patterns, along with SemWeb and
> > agent patterns (no rocks thrown, please - the SemWeb/Agent
> > stuff is the long-term target)
> >
> > d) work with WS-I and the specs to ensure that we have
> > consistent direction towards convergence
> >
> > My belief is that the entire IT industry is poised on the
> > verge of a major break in what I think is so far a
> > stagnation. The potential of the internet is clear - and
> > everyone is aware that it's potential is more than just human
> > readable web pages. We all feel it, business has been
> > preparing (somewhat) for it, and the engineers all want to build it.
> >
> > However, this level of information integration won't happen unless:
> >
> > a) the path to implementation of standards based messaging
> > between partner, or producer/consumer, applications, is very clear
> >
> > b) all players involved in complex processes can participate
> >
> > c) the integration effort doesn't involve such a long, drawn
> > out mapping effort everytime (this kills progress on the
> > entire movement)
> >
> > The industry will continue to stall until we solve some of
> > these problems. I would like to help by completing the
> > patterns and the catalog of patterns, and publish the use
> > cases to describe it. There also needs to be a major outreach
> > effort to all industry groups that are building shared
> > business processes (which by the way, look much more complex
> > than simple request-response models).
> >
> > That's it, I guess....
> >
> > John
> > 313.930.5323
> >
> > Monica J. Martin wrote:
> > > John,
> > > On a related point (to ebSOA that is), previously Matt
> > MacKenzie was
> > > the ebSOA representative to the ebXML-jc.  Perhaps you
> > could provide
> > > some insight into your overall vision of the ebSOA TC based on its
> > > original charter. I've asked Jamie Clark to give an 
> update on ebSOA
> > > and SOA TC efforts. In the past, it was anticipated that
> > ebSOA would
> > > assist in defining the next generation architecture for 
> ebXML. Your
> > > thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > ~~~~~~~~~
> > john c hardin
> > sanghainteractive.com
> > 313.930.5323 cell
> > mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
> >
> > "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in
> > the image of a global village."
> >
> >      Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
>