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Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
John, Where did this vision come from? I didn't get the memo. Certainly, the ebMS team has communicated and moved our work in that direction, but I don't see other ebStandards explicitly moving toward that vision. -matt Chiusano Joseph wrote: >Sounds great - where can I get more OASIS-official public information on >this? And also on ebXML v2? This is highly useful and valuable >information. > >Kind Regards, >Joseph Chiusano >Booz Allen Hamilton >Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com] >>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:30 AM >>To: David Webber (XML) >>Cc: Chiusano Joseph; Monica J. Martin; Duane Nickull; >>dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com; >>tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org; >>ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com; >>golsen@contivo.com; John Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; >>tdean@criticaltech.net; ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark >>Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin >> >>That would be the list, thanks David. >>Joe, the ebMS v3 direction has been (and I think still is) to >>encompass the WS-I Basic Profile, the WS-Security and other >>WS* specs, thereby moving towards convergence. A curious >>point is that we don't see that kind of outreach yet from the >>other side.... >> >>john >> >>David Webber (XML) wrote: >> >> >>>Joe, >>> >>>That is exactly what we are qualifiying here in ebSOA!!! >>> >>>We have BPSS V2, ebMS V3, Registey V3 - but no updated architecture >>>that documents the new capabilities that all this enables. >>> >>>Thanks, DW >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com> >>>To: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com>; "Monica J. Martin" >>><Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>; "David RR Webber" >>> >>> >><david@drrw.info>; "Duane >> >> >>>Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>; >>><jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com>; <tony.scott@gm.com>; >>><john.l.jackson@gm.com>; <psnack@aiag.org>; >>> >>> >><ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com>; >> >> >>><ronschuldt@msn.com>; <golsen@contivo.com>; "John Casillas" >>><johnc@mbproject.org>; <mjyader@comcast.net>; >>><tdean@criticaltech.net>; <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; >>> >>> >>"James Bryce Clark" >> >> >>><jamie.clark@oasis-open.org> >>>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:29 AM >>>Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin >>> >>> >>><Quote> >>>a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is >>>closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!) </Quote> >>> >>>Can you please explain what "ebXML v3" is? >>> >>>Thanks, >>>Joe >>> >>>Joseph Chiusano >>>Booz Allen Hamilton >>>Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com] >>>>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 AM >>>>To: Monica J. Martin; David RR Webber; Duane Nickull; >>>>dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com; >>>>tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org; >>>>ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com; >>>> >>>> >>golsen@contivo.com; John >> >> >>>>Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; tdean@criticaltech.net; >>>>ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark >>>>Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin >>>> >>>>Thanks Monica and thanks to all for the warm welcome. >>>> >>>>I have copied a number of folks on this, because I would like to >>>>enlist their assistance for the ebSOA editing activities or >>>> >>>> >>just for >> >> >>>>ideas as we move forward. Also Jamie and Dale asked me about >>>>addressing the ebXML-jc group. I had a good conversation with Jamie >>>>the other night, and got some direction from both him and >>>> >>>> >>from Duane. >> >> >>>>I would very much like to address the ebXML-jc, and get a braindump >>>>how the two groups need to dovetail. I'll plan on being on the call >>>>next Wed if allowed. >>>> >>>>My primary vision for the ebSOA group is to move forward >>>> >>>> >>with the work >> >> >>>>from the charter (pattern catalog) and act as a facilitator towards >>> >>> >>>>interoperability among the upcoming business process >>>> >>>> >>frameworks (WS*, >> >> >>>>ebXML and SemWeb are three that are working to gain dominance). The >>>>request-response model is a very simplistic view that isn't >>>> >>>> >>currently >> >> >>>>mapping well onto the true complexity that large industries have >>>>developed in their shared business processes. For example, >>>> >>>> >>no one will >> >> >>>>argue today that inventory visibility for the automotive >>>> >>>> >>industry is a >> >> >>>>request-response model between two partners. Healthcare is another >>>>area that is very complex, and requires multiple >>>> >>>> >>interactions between >> >> >>>>large numbers of process participants to complete the information >>>>exchange, with forks and decisions during the execution. >>>> >>>>The other reality is that process participants require constant >>>>realtime feeds of information from many points in the >>>> >>>> >>process, which >> >> >>>>are owned and offered by various companies of various sizes and IT >>>>capabilities. >>>>This spells out, to me at least, the need for a network operating >>>>framework, where processes run in an "app fabric" >>>>that is dependable and very open. Then we can layer event causation >>>>techniques and other things like shared industry process B.A.M. on >>>>top. The network REALLY IS the computer.... >>>> >>>>To accomplish this kind of integration, I believe that we need to: >>>> >>>>a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is >>>>closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!) >>>> >>>>b) gather and document, then publish and evangelize, real world use >>>>cases that prove SOA principles using ebXML and WS and >>>> >>>> >>shine a light >> >> >>>>on successful implementations >>>> >>>>c) include both WS* and ebXML patterns, along with SemWeb and agent >>>>patterns (no rocks thrown, please - the SemWeb/Agent stuff is the >>>>long-term target) >>>> >>>>d) work with WS-I and the specs to ensure that we have consistent >>>>direction towards convergence >>>> >>>>My belief is that the entire IT industry is poised on the >>>> >>>> >>verge of a >> >> >>>>major break in what I think is so far a stagnation. The >>>> >>>> >>potential of >> >> >>>>the internet is clear - and everyone is aware that it's >>>> >>>> >>potential is >> >> >>>>more than just human readable web pages. We all feel it, >>>> >>>> >>business has >> >> >>>>been preparing (somewhat) for it, and the engineers all >>>> >>>> >>want to build >> >> >>>>it. >>>> >>>>However, this level of information integration won't happen unless: >>>> >>>>a) the path to implementation of standards based messaging between >>>>partner, or producer/consumer, applications, is very clear >>>> >>>>b) all players involved in complex processes can participate >>>> >>>>c) the integration effort doesn't involve such a long, drawn out >>>>mapping effort everytime (this kills progress on the entire >>>> >>>> >>movement) >> >> >>>>The industry will continue to stall until we solve some of these >>>>problems. I would like to help by completing the patterns and the >>>>catalog of patterns, and publish the use cases to describe >>>> >>>> >>it. There >> >> >>>>also needs to be a major outreach effort to all industry >>>> >>>> >>groups that >> >> >>>>are building shared business processes (which by the way, look much >>>>more complex than simple request-response models). >>>> >>>>That's it, I guess.... >>>> >>>>John >>>>313.930.5323 >>>> >>>>Monica J. Martin wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>John, >>>>>On a related point (to ebSOA that is), previously Matt >>>>> >>>>> >>>>MacKenzie was >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>the ebSOA representative to the ebXML-jc. Perhaps you >>>>> >>>>> >>>>could provide >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>some insight into your overall vision of the ebSOA TC based on its >>>>>original charter. I've asked Jamie Clark to give an update >>>>> >>>>> >>on ebSOA >> >> >>>>>and SOA TC efforts. In the past, it was anticipated that >>>>> >>>>> >>>>ebSOA would >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>assist in defining the next generation architecture for >>>>> >>>>> >>ebXML. Your >> >> >>>>>thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>-- >>>>~~~~~~~~~ >>>>john c hardin >>>>sanghainteractive.com >>>>313.930.5323 cell >>>>mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com >>>> >>>>"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in >>>> >>>> >>the image >> >> >>>>of a global village." >>>> >>>> Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>~~~~~~~~~ >>john c hardin >>sanghainteractive.com >>313.930.5323 cell >>mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com >> >>"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in >>the image of a global village." >> >> Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962 >> >> >> >> >>
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