RE: New work and loose ends

["Welsh, David" <David.Welsh@nordstrom.com>]

Oh Marty, that's probably very simple; re. 'enforce'. 
If you're not coming from UMM, then you're really not on a full ebXML. 

I don't think the BP team majority feels we're restricted to the UMM, actually without taking a vote I'd venture a guess the majority agree we *want* the UMM; and like in the next BPSS this time the full UMM including the REA stuff. Like the TA says.

-Dave



> 
> David,
> 
> Have you considered how the requirement to use UMM will be 
> enforced?  I
> understand that it restricts the BP team to using UMM.  Suppose some
> industry group that has its own collaboration protocol wants 
> to use  the
> CPP and CPA.  I am sure that you would agree that it wouldn't be in
> anyone's best interest to tell them to go and look for a different
> agreement specification? ...nor would it be in anyone's best 
> interest to
> tell them that they have to rip up their collaboration 
> protocol and adopt
> UMM.
> 
> In any case, the ebXML "modularity" requirement forced the 
> CPP-CPA spec to
> use words like "MAY" and "SHOULD" instead of "SHALL" with 
> respect to the
> BPSS and MSH specs and the same is true of the TRP spec.  The 
> CPP-CPA team
> was dinged on this by QR.
> 
> Regards,
> Marty
> 
> **************************************************************
> ***********************
> 
> Martin W. Sachs
> IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
> P. O. B. 704
> Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
> 914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
> Notes address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
> Internet address:  mwsachs @ us.ibm.com
> **************************************************************
> ***********************
> 
> 
> 
> "Welsh, David" <David.Welsh@nordstrom.com> on 07/20/2001 12:39:37 PM
> 
> To:   "'Dale Moberg'" <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>, Martin W
>       Sachs/Watson/IBM@IBMUS, ebxml-cppa@lists.oasis-open.org
> cc:   "Bob Haugen (E-mail)" <linkage@interaccess.com>, "James 
> Bryce Clark
>       (E-mail 2)" <jamie.clark@mmiec.com>, "James Clark (E-mail)"
>       <jdc-icot@lcc.net>, "Paul R. Levine (E-mail)" 
> <plevine@telcordia.com>
> Subject:  RE: New  work and loose ends
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale,
> Thanks.
> I'm  not really up on how extensive the 'modularity' has been defined
> within  ebXML but on 'business process specifications', ebXML 
> makes it a
> requirement if you're dealing with business process modeling 
> that the UMM
> is the  way.
> 
> -Dave
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dale Moberg  [mailto:dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001  7:35 PM
> To: Welsh, David; Martin W Sachs;  ebxml-cppa@lists.oasis-open.org
> Cc: Bob Haugen (E-mail); James Bryce  Clark (E-mail 2); James Clark
> (E-mail); Paul R. Levine  (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: New work and loose ends
> 
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> The proposed CPPA charter includes several suggested liaison 
> activities
> with w3c groups, oasis groups, and possibly
> others. Web services are proposed as one kind of 
> specification to monitor
> (watching where WSFL, BPMI, XLang
> et alia end up being digested.) One reason for this interest is in
> allowing CPPs and CPAs to link to other "business process
> specifications". This is in keeping with the modularity ebXML has
> endorsed-- to permit each specification area
> to be used independently of other ebXML specifications as 
> well as having
> good integration points. Some
> issues I see here are whether and how to keep the "service" 
> and "action"
> tags, how to generalize CPAs to handle
> multi-role collaborations, and so on. If it made sense to use CPPs and
> CPAs in connection with web service flows,
> even if these were defined in some "non-standard" specification, why
> preclude opening up the CPPA specification to
> allow creating a CPA that referenced BPs described in accordance  with
> non-ebXML notations? If the other notations
> are being used, and CPPA is to promote faster convergence  to agreeing
> upon interoperable software configurations,
> it would certainly be within our intended scope.
> 
> At any rate, consideration of these issues, and monitoring
> developments parallel to ebXML BPSS,
> is not a scope change from the proposed charter, IMO.
> 
> Bye
> Dale
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Welsh, David
> Sent: Thu 7/19/2001 6:15 PM
> To: 'Martin W Sachs';  ebxml-cppa@lists.oasis-open.org
> Cc: Bob Haugen (E-mail); James  Bryce Clark (E-mail 2); James Clark
> (E-mail); Paul R. Levine (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: New work and loose ends
> 
> 
> 
> Marty,
> Sorry to jump in, but I was trying to understand  the frame 
> of reference /
> direction that's being used when it comes to the  suggested 
> changes / new
> work items to ebXML CPA-CPP.
> There seems to be a  lot of 'really cool technical stuff' 
> being proposed,
> no doubt about it (!),  but I've seen references being made to look at
> non-related ebXML / "foreign"  specifications in the CPPA TC 
> work plan,
> where some of these reference  topics (like WSFL) are still 
> proprietary as
> far as I
> know.
> Is this a  wish that the CPPA TC do a technology 'look ahead' 
> to things
> that might get  commonly adopted like what SOAP eventually 
> went thru, re
> W3C and IPR, and /  or is this meant as potential alignment 
> efforts to own
> ebXML developments;  which may or may not eventually be 
> something that's a
> 'out of
> scope  thing'.
> 
> Maybe I'm still working off of the original ebXML concept  that we're
> focused on building upon established standards (ex. W3C, ISO,  ..), as
> opposed to what might one day become a standard (maybe), in 
> the  absence of
> seeing anything mentioned to the contrary recently on the 
> various  ebXML
> related news
> lists.
> 
> Just asking !
> All the best in your up  coming meetings.
> Thanks again
> -Dave
> 
> 
> > -----Original  Message-----
> > From: Martin W Sachs [mailto:mwsachs@us.ibm.com]
> >  Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 11:37 AM
> > To:  ebxml-cppa@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: New work and loose  ends
> >
> >
> > I have attached two documents that discuss  potential
> > maintenance and new
> > work items that I will review  next week.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Marty
> >
> > (See  attached file: CPA-CPP-changes.pdf)List of work items as
> > of the end  of
> > the Vienna ebXML meeting. This includes additional  discussion
> > of some items
> > in  the
> >               CPPA.new.work document below
> >
> > (See attached file:  CPPA.new.work.pdf)Summary of all 
> proposed work and
> > loose ends as of  today. I will be using this as slides next week.
> >
> >  **************************************************************
> >  ***********************
> >
> > Martin W. Sachs
> > IBM T. J.  Watson Research Center
> > P. O. B. 704
> > Yorktown Hts, NY  10598
> > 914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
> > Notes  address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
> > Internet address:   mwsachs @ us.ibm.com
> >  **************************************************************
> >  ***********************
> >
> 
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