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Subject: RE: [ebxml-cppa] RE: exam CPPA BALLOT for Specification version 1.9Approval (VOTE ENDS April 26)


Though I think email votes are ballots, I can tell who they are from,
and it looks like I won't be able to say what the outcome is
until about midnight Friday. So, Tony, please send me your 
updated vote as you decide what it is to be.

Thanks David.

Bye,
Dale

-----Original Message-----
From: David Fischer [mailto:david@drummondgroup.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:41 AM
To: Dale Moberg
Subject: RE: [ebxml-cppa] RE: exam CPPA BALLOT for Specification version
1.9 Approval (VOTE ENDS April 26)


In Robert's Rules of Order, section VI on Voting, bottom of third
paragraph (at
least in my copy) it says:

	A member has the right to change his vote
	(when not made by ballot) before the decision
	of the question has been finally and conclusively
	pronounced by the chair, but not afterwards.

I don't know if eMail is a ballot or not since it is individually
identifiable,
probably not.

Your concern that failure of CPPA to pass could harm ebXML is exactly
correct.

Regards,

David.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Moberg [mailto:dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 11:06 AM
To: Tony Fletcher
Cc: Ebxml-Cppa List
Subject: [ebxml-cppa] RE: exam CPPA BALLOT for Specification version 1.9
Approval (VOTE ENDS April 26)


Tony,

I think that a change in vote is allowed before voting
closes midnight Friday at midnight, but I need
to check the rules of order to confirm that is the case.

There are still several voting members that have not
sent in votes, so I have not yet started publicity
for an initial public review period. Of course, we
will not start this publicity if the required 2/3 approval
is not obtained.

It is unfortunate that these complex IPR issues arose precisely
when we were doing our TC vote, for it has mixed up
issues of whether the specification is ready for wider review
with questions of whether we like the terms IBM has
announced with respect to its asserted IPR.

I wish that we had identified these concerns and
tried to discuss them in more detail prior to
calling for a vote. Ah, hindsight.

Perhaps we should have divided the question more
precisely for voting and voted separately on whether
we would move forward until IPR issues were satisfied
to everyone's satisfaction.

Of course, how we vote on the specification's
progress has no necessary connection with what IBM
will choose to do concerning granting access to their
IPR.

Full disclosure is required by OASIS, and IBM has complied.
We do not know about any non-member IPR claims, of course.
IBM  has offered RAND terms with a RF rider, and some
have wanted a more precise statement of the RF rider.

Our concern with these IPR issues has presumably been
a concern with the impact on implementation and utilization
of our CPPA specification. It is hard for me to
see that by moving the specification forward we
are thereby promoting some competitive advantage
that IBM has, because they have announced their IPR,
and said that they won't try to profit from it
by charging implementers of CPPA related functionality.
But perhaps there is some worry about that
fairness aspect also.

Ironically, not voting to move the specification
forward will have a large impact on implementation
and utilization, and perhaps jeopardize or tarnish
the ebXML family of specifications,
though of course the specifications
can be used independently.

I would hope that by the time we vote to send the specification
to OASIS for consideration as a specification that we would
have a satisfactory resolution to IPR terms and procedures.
If not, we can vote to delay or stop our work at that point.

I will check on the Rules of Order on changing the vote
and reply here later.

Bye,
Dale


-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Fletcher [mailto:tony.fletcher@choreology.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 2:18 AM
To: Dale Moberg
Cc: Ebxml-Cppa List
Subject: RE: exam CPPA BALLOT for Specification version 1.9 Approval
(VOTE ENDS April 26)


Dear Dale and CPP/A Colleagues,

I do not know if this is allowed, but I would like to withdraw my FOR
vote
on CPP/A and replace it with ABSTAIN.

I have become uncomfortable with the IPR issue.  As I said originally I
have
had reservations about this aspect since the news broke.  I also stand
by
what I said originally in that we should not 'shoot the messenger' -
Marty
is blameless and has worked hard and effectively in this area for
several
years now.

However, any licence is not zero cost if you have to apply for it -
there is
always, at least, the cost of applying and the potential for delay in
receiving a licence.

I would like to see IBM explain to the TC exactly what is covered so
that we
understand whether it is possible to implement CPP/A in a meaningful way
without requiring a licence, or not.  I would also like to seem IBM
offer an
'open licence' (or what ever the correct legal term is), royalty free,
such
that one did not need to go through an application process.  Any
implementation would automatically be licensed.  I would accept possibly
having to acknowledge the licence and IBM's IPR.  IBM would still
benefit
from the defensive aspect of a patent - i.e. no-one else could patent
the
same ideas and charge IBM for them.

Best Regards     Tony
A M Fletcher
Choreology Ltd., 13 Austin Friars, London EC2N 2JX     UK
Tel: +44 (0) 20 76701787         Mobile: +44 (0) 7801 948219
tony.fletcher@choreology.com <mailto:tony.fletcher@choreology.com>
(Home: amfletcher@iee.org)


-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Fletcher [mailto:tony_fletcher@btopenworld.com]
Sent: 20 April 2002 13:24
To: Dale Moberg
Cc: Ebxml-Cppa List
Subject: RE: ebXML CPPA BALLOT for Specification version 1.9 Approval
(VOTE ENDS April 23)


Dear CPP/A Colleagues,

Having followed the discussions on the CPP/A 1.9 Specification as
carefully
as I can I vote

FOR - to accept the specification



Note:  I was half way through composing a message voting against based
on
the IPR issue, but the mail from Marty has satisfied one of my two
alternatives that would allow me to vote positively. I fully accept that
Marty Sachs is in no way to blame and I respect and commend IBM for
disclosing at this point rather then only after many have implemented -
and
we should not shoot the messenger.  I trust the mail messages will be
followed through.  So my thanks as well to Marty, Bob Sutor and others
involved behind the scenes, I am sure, in resolving this issue speedily.
I
now hope we can equally speedily unwind the damage to the perception
some
people have of ebXML (and its component parts).

Best Regards     Tony
A M Fletcher
Choreology Ltd., 13 Austin Friars, London EC2N 2JX     UK
Tel: +44 (0) 20 76701787         Mobile: +44 (0) 7801 948219
tony.fletcher@choreology.com <mailto:tony.fletcher@choreology.com>
(Home: amfletcher@iee.org)


-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Moberg [mailto:dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com]
Sent: 16 April 2002 18:23
To: Himagiri Mukkamala; David Fischer; Arvola Chan; Yukinori Saito;
brian.hayes@commerceone.com; James Bryce Clark; Peter Ogden; David
Smiley; Malu, Pallavi G; Kartha, Neelakantan; rweida@hotmail.com;
kevin.liu@sap.com; Dale Moberg; mwsachs@us.ibm.com; Jean Zheng;
selim.aissi@intel.com; tony_fletcher@btopenworld.com; pete@seebeyond.com
Subject: ebXML CPPA BALLOTfor Specification version 1.9 Approval (VOTE
ENDS April 23)



It has been proposed and accepted to vote on whether to approve
and publish the April 19 version of the ebXML CPPA specification
(to be versioned as 1.9) as a Technical Committee specification.


Your reply to this ballot will be your vote.
Indicate in your reply concerning the
motion to accept and publish the specification
as version 1.9 that you are either:

FOR - to accept the specification
	OR
AGAINST - to reject the specification.

by April 23, 2002, 12 midnight Pacific Daylight Time.


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