RE: msh TimeAccuracy RE: T2 Reliable Messaging w/o CPA or VIA...

["HUGHES,JIM (HP-Cupertino,ex1)" <jim_hughes@hp.com>]

I, also, believe that parties should rely on other (unspecified) means to
synchronize clocks and this should not be a part of MSS. Had I been more
involved with the 1.1 spec you would have had me arguing this point - I
think it got in through a lack of proper review. Mea culpa.

jim


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin W Sachs [mailto:mwsachs@us.ibm.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 6:35 AM
> To: Dale Moberg
> Cc: ebXML Msg; ebxml-cppa@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: msh TimeAccuracy RE: T2 Reliable Messaging w/o CPA or
> VIA...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree with synchronizing clocks.  None of the time 
> elements in the
> message service spec are absolute times as far as I recall.  They are
> intervals.  The state of the art of timing should be good 
> enough to let
> each end time its own intervals and not to need a timer 
> accuracy parameter
> (here, I agree with Chris).  The CPA has one or two absolute 
> times but the
> intervals with which they are associated are measured in days 
> or longer -
> again no synchronization or timer accuracy requirement is needed.
> 
> I think I am repeating myself but just to make sure:  The 
> real problem is
> that the message service specification does not state where 
> each of the
> reliable messaging parameters (and perhaps other also?) is 
> located.  10.2
> and 10.2.1 Delivery semantics say "either the CPA or the 
> message header".
> For the rest of the parameters, nothing is said at all about 
> where they are
> found.  This is not an implementer's choice. Each one must be 
> specified as
> being in the message header or in the CPA.
> 
> Regards,
> Marty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **************************************************************
> ***********************
> 
> Martin W. Sachs
> IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
> P. O. B. 704
> Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
> 914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
> Notes address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
> Internet address:  mwsachs @ us.ibm.com
> **************************************************************
> ***********************
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Moberg <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com> on 08/01/2001 06:55:48 PM
> 
> To:   ebXML Msg <ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org>
> cc:   ebxml-cppa@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject:  msh TimeAccuracy RE: T2 Reliable Messaging w/o CPA or VIA...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>      mshTimeAccuracy
> >>      >>>This is the accuracy to which a recipient of a 
> message claims
> to keep their internal
> >>      system clocks. This should probably be part of a CPP and not
> vary from message to message
> >>      therefore it does not need to be in the MessageHeader
> >>      [David Fischer] Agreed, but what if there is no CPP?  I'm not
> sure why this is necessary.
> 
> Chris Ferris>It isn't represented in the CPP, nor should it be. I have
> repeatedly expressed my
> >belief that this is unnecessary at best, and more likely
> unimplementable in any event [1].
> 
> >If anything, I could see parties agreeing to a requirement that their
> respective
> >system's system clock be synchronized using something like 
> NTP or some
> similar
> >service and having this reflected in some manner within the 
> CPP/A, but
> not mshTimeAccuracy!
> 
> >I for one would like to see this removed from the 1.1 specification.
> 
> I agree with Chris that the use of
> NTP to synchronize clocks at a distance
> is something that is suitable for a CPA
> and that the use of NTP
> or XNTP or whatever could be
> advertized in a CPP. I also agree
> that putting the mshTimeAccuracy
> in the MessageHeader
> is definitely excess baggage!
> Should be removed.
> 
> 
> 
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