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Subject: RE: [energyinterop] Groups - EI Proposed Actors (EI Proposed Actors.doc) uploaded
Agreed. When do we start?
With kind regards,
********************************
Michel Kohanim, C.E.O
Universal Devices, Inc.
(p) 818.631.0333
(f) 818.708.0755
http://www.universal-devices.com
********************************
-----Original Message-----
From: Considine, Toby (Campus Services IT) [mailto:Toby.Considine@unc.edu]
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:41 AM
To: 'energyinterop@lists.oasis-open.org'
Subject: RE: [energyinterop] Groups - EI Proposed Actors (EI Proposed
Actors.doc) uploaded
Good effort.
Where we can, we should try to align our big classifications with the
domains of the smart grid as defined in the roadmap.
http://www.nist.gov/smartgrid/
last public version:
http://www.nist.gov/smartgrid/Report%20to%20NISTlAugust10%20(2).pdf
The Conceptual Model begins on page 20.
It names the following domains:
Operations
Markets
Service Provider
Bulk Generation
Transmission
Distribution
Customer
Of course, the principle of symmetry in smart grid definitions acknowledges
that the microgrid customer may simultaneously be the distribution operator,
with generation and customers contained.
The proper end point for Energy Interoperation is the Energy Services
Interface (ESI). The ESI may be a face on an enterprise oriented Energy
Management System, or, when there is a single or predominant Building
Automation System (BAS), it may be a face on the BAS, or it may be a utility
supplied direct control system (turn off the single window unit in the
trailer). In each of these cases, and in many more, the single
undifferentiated end point for Energy Interoperation is the ESI.
If we had a market and technologies for a pure economic interface, that
would be the end of it. Forward predictions of energy pricing and well
developed pricing strategies would be sufficient to induce effective storage
management. Today's markets and business models will not let us leap this
chasm in a single step (though as the image acknowledges, it is much more
difficult to leap a chasm in two steps than in one).
So what are the things that break this clean model?
1) Storage Management, for now. (But that model is coming from another
group, to be received by this group in November).
2) Peak or Spike management (or is this just a specific problem within Load
Shaping?)
3) Sale-back
Personally, I am growing more and more convinced that except for industrial
sites, sales-back may never be fully economic. I think car batteries will be
used, if at all, for load management within the facility that house them. I
think that a side effect of the markets enabled by EI will create better
site storage, and that feeding the site storage will be the best use for
most excess site generation.
In any case, we have the big terms and the primary definitions from the
roadmap. If the roadmap is wrong in some detail, we should identify this
explicitly. If we are merely fleshing it out, we should consider feedback to
the smart grid standards board.
Question to the group: Should we include an explicit short (one page) call
out to the national smart grid conceptual model in the EI document?
"A man should never be ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which
is but saying ... that he is wiser today than yesterday." -- Jonathan Swift
Toby Considine
Chair, OASIS oBIX TC
Facilities Technology Office
University of North Carolina
Chapel Hill, NC
Email: Toby.Considine@ unc.edu
Phone: (919)962-9073
http://www.oasis-open.org
blog: www.NewDaedalus.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Kohanim [mailto:michel@universal-devices.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 3:00 AM
To: energyinterop@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [energyinterop] Groups - EI Proposed Actors (EI Proposed
Actors.doc) uploaded
Hi David,
I am so very sorry for a tardy reply.
I totally agree with you. Let's get started!
With kind regards,
********************************
Michel Kohanim, C.E.O
Universal Devices, Inc.
(p) 818.631.0333
(f) 818.708.0755
http://www.universal-devices.com
********************************
-----Original Message-----
From: Wilson, David C (St. Paul) [mailto:DavidCWilson@trane.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 1:35 PM
To: energyinterop@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [energyinterop] Groups - EI Proposed Actors (EI Proposed
Actors.doc) uploaded
Hi Michel,
In response to your questions:
>> why would we have Load Generating Organization, Generation Operator,
and Local Generation System?
I don't know that we should. My favorite book on use cases is Writing
Effective Use Cases by Alistair Cockburn. He advocates a hierarchy of
use cases from Summary ("cloud/kite"), User Goal (sea-level), and
Sub-function (underwater).
Different DR groups start at different levels. I listed each level to
provoke the conversation about what level of actor we should document.
>> Secondly, in your view, do you think we should also come up with
organizational use cases as well?
I lean toward starting at the highest level that makes sense. For
businesses, I find it easier to say that the organization has a goal
rather than to make assumptions about how any particular company
executes these goals / delegates the goal.
What do you think?
Best Regards,
Dave
Office: +1.651.407.4168
Mobile: +1.612.741.2759
Email: davidcwilson@trane.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Kohanim [mailto:michel@universal-devices.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 1:53 AM
To: energyinterop@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [energyinterop] Groups - EI Proposed Actors (EI Proposed
Actors.doc) uploaded
Hi David,
This is excellent and quite comprehensive. I know this document is the
starting point but I just want to make sure I understand the reasoning
behind your categorization. For instance, why would we have Load
Generating Organization, Generation Operator, and Local Generation
System?
Secondly, in your view, do you think we should also come up with
organizational use cases as well?
With kind regards,
********************************
Michel Kohanim, C.E.O
Universal Devices, Inc.
(p) 818.631.0333
(f) 818.708.0755
http://www.universal-devices.com
********************************
-----Original Message-----
From: davidcwilson@trane.com [mailto:davidcwilson@trane.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:02 PM
To: energyinterop@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [energyinterop] Groups - EI Proposed Actors (EI Proposed
Actors.doc) uploaded
Hello All,
Please review and markup the linked document.
I took an action to make a strawman list of the actors that will make
appearances in our use cases. I include at the bottom a cross-reference
to
the OpenADR 1.0 actors/roles.
I have posted this document as a starting point for us to decide which
actors are imporant to us. I aired on the side of including as many as
I
could think of.
There is no pride of ownership here because this is a very rough
strawman
to move us forward. Please edit mercilessly.
Again, thank you for reviewing and commenting on/marking-up the attached
prior to next week's meeting.
Regards,
Dave
p.s. Note that you can use the OASIS document comment feature to make
overall comments.
p.p.s. Many thanks to the OpenADR contributors for their patience with
us
as we disassemble & reassemble something that they worked on so
dilegently.
-- Mr. David Wilson
The document named EI Proposed Actors (EI Proposed Actors.doc) has been
submitted by Mr. David Wilson to the OASIS Energy Interoperation TC
document repository.
Document Description:
A list of proposed actors for the Energyinterop specification.
View Document Details:
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/document.php?document_id=34041
Download Document:
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/34041/EI%20Proposed%20
Actors.doc
PLEASE NOTE: If the above links do not work for you, your email
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