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Subject: RE: [huml-comment] PC-33 -Section 4.4.6-race
That seems reasonable. Ciao, Rex At 4:08 PM -0600 12/2/02, Bullard, Claude L (Len) wrote: >I agree. Still, a motion to remove should be >accompanied by reapplicable rationale. That >may not be a rule but it meets expectations of >consistency. > >len > >From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] > >I still need a formal motion from a voting member to remove race from >the attributeGroup physicalDescriptors in the Primary Base >Schema/Specification in order to call a vote on the mailing list. > >I think that importing the namespace of an appropriate public safety >or law enforcement standard, if one exists, would suffice to cover >our need to support currently accepted usages. I haven't researched >it yet, so I am not citing one now. > >There is no problem that I can see with having the term race in the >Secondary Base Schema/Specification in the two places I mentioned >earlier, as an enumeration of belief or belief system and in the >Physical Characteristics Description ML where it could be derived as >an incomplete but widely used term for ethnic and genetic >information, more related to phenotype than genotype. > >Ciao, >Rex > >At 2:15 PM -0600 12/2/02, Bullard, Claude L (Len) wrote: >>I agree with that in the socio-cultural experiential >>sense. It is an abusable term that has historically >>been abused. However, I sense in the reply, a cultural >>emotionalism. ANY term is subject to certain cultural >>contexts, so that is not enough to remove it. (I favor >>removing it but not for the reasons given so far.) >> >>First: I suggest that one of the means by which one >>detects the presence of cultural amplifiers are the emotions >>demonstrated in the presence of a term. Terms such >>as "nigger" are famous for this kind of reaction; it >>can be used by members of the ???? race in certain >>contexts, but if members of multiple ??? races are >>present, its use will provoke emotional responses. >> >>See the problem here? Are there communications >>for which the context of "race" will determine >>interpretation or usage for a reasonably large >>set of instances? >> >>Second: the problem some people have with the >>term is that it does not have a genetic truth, >>or better, nothing genetic is concretely denoted >>by the term 'race'. So the second test. Given >>the code list I provided earlier, would an observer >>be able to correctly identify (select into a >>coded membership) a representative set of candidates? >> >>Does it matter that geneticists >>and anthropologists do not find use in their theories >>for the term 'race' if a large population identifies >>with a label in the codelist and that identification >>is the source of contextual rules for its use? >> >>Careful here. We can quite quickly make our own >>emotionally laden prejudice the values by which >>we choose. >> >>Human communication is not exclusively about proven facts. >>That is a core challenge that HumanML has to meet. >>Even Peirce and Sowa admit to logical reasoning >>over probabilistic facts. >> >>http://www.jfsowa.com/peirce/ms514.htm >> >>It does not belong in the primary if we cannot state >>a rule by which a designer can determine if any >>member of a codelist of that type is a proper member >>of the enumerated set. That's the Knowledge Test. >> >>len >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: cognite@zianet.com [mailto:cognite@zianet.com] >> >>At 01:00 PM 02-12-2002 -0600, you wrote: >>>From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org] >>> >>>>That's a big step from a measurable physical characteristic. Is this going >>>>to be added to the specification? >>> >> >>Len replied: >> >>>It would depend on the codelist. And that is application dependent. It's >>>a good point though; race is probably not a physical characteristic until >>>it is enumerated further or measurable. On the other hand, it can be a >> >>Even a " standard codelist one finds in many public safety > >applications " is local to certain cultural contexts. Preferable to >>in effect teaching application of divisive criteria, is the huml work >>toward a framework for using commonalities to bridge across contexts. >> >>Relegating the term to secondary, user-developed extensions rather >>than leaving it in the huml primary seems merited, on grounds of >>objectivity as discussed, and in view of the huml goal of ameliorating >> misunderstandings in increasingly global communication. >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------- >>To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription >>manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl> > > >-- >Rex Brooks >Starbourne Communications Design >1361-A Addison, Berkeley, CA 94702 *510-849-2309 >http://www.starbourne.com * rexb@starbourne.com -- Rex Brooks Starbourne Communications Design 1361-A Addison, Berkeley, CA 94702 *510-849-2309 http://www.starbourne.com * rexb@starbourne.com
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