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Subject: Re: [legalcitem] GitHub etc.(long post...sorry)

Hi Frank,

I sympathize with you! I know the problem because with Akoma Ntoso was the same and with LegalRuleML (and RuleML interconnection) also.

In Akoma Ntoso case: we (Fabio, me, and UN) put the work (schema, documentation, slides, examples) inside of KAVI and SVN as member contributions and so those material was automatically adopted as part of the TC. In this case we adopted the internal contribution.

In LegalRuleML case: a member of RuleML Community made a contribution via external mailing list (https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/legalruleml-comment/) to the TC claiming the paternity and the license.
In this case we adopted the external contribution.

You can find the format for claiming the paternity here (annex B):

So it is important that you have a skype call with Chet as soon as possible also with the participation of the LegalCite chairs in order to find a good solution.

This is my suggestion coming from similar experience, in order to not discover later that we have made a mistake or created a trouble for your work.

Il 20/11/2014 13:46, Frank Bennett ha scritto:

On Thursday, November 20, 2014, monica.palmirani
<monica.palmirani@unibo.it <mailto:monica.palmirani@unibo.it>> wrote:

    LegalDocML and LegalRuleML (but also the other OASIS TCs) are using
    the OASIS tools for cooperating and for contributing in the TCs.

     >From my knowledge it is fundamental to use those tools for
    achieving the correct standardisation process, for transparency
    approach, for managing the IPR issues properly and also for creating
    persistent URIs ofthe material that will be mentioned later in the
    standardization process. Otherwise we can have some problems in
    official steps.


    Chet could help in these cases. Any time that I had some doubts
    about contributions, tools, IPR issues I asked to Chet.

    In any case we are using (in LegalDocML and LegalRuleML) the
    following tools:

    - Wiki - https://wiki.oasis-open.org/ (public)

    - JIRA  - for managing the activities/task/ticket/bugs (not public
    only for the OASIS members)

    - SVN repo - for including all the schema, documents, etc.

    - KAVI - for the official documents approved by the TC. It is
    important to archive the official documents because we need links in
    KAVI for each official documents involved in the standardization
    process (minutes, working document, CSD). See this document for the
    naming convention of the files:

    Each document archived in KAVI is public:

    Each email in the mailing list and the attachment are public:

    For the public accessibility to the resources/contributions see:

    My 2 cents,

The problem (at least in the case of the courts SC) is one of manpower.
The technical SC decided that controlled lists were preferable to dumb
strings, for values with a finite scope. There are a lot of courts, and
there are a lot of reporters, and there are many more intersections of
the two. To build out the two lists and the relations between them is
beyond the capacity of the committee membership, but there is a
community that can help. Since both the community and OASIS have the
same aim, I don't see any harm in activating the former, to produce
material that can be vetted and adopted by the latter.

Certainly OASIS groups have adopted external work in the past; the only
novelty here is perhaps that the external product was conceived after
the group formed.

Anyway, we'll see how it goes - I'll try to talk to Chet sometime soon,
to iron out any wrinkles.


    Il 19/11/2014 23:09, Frank Bennett ha scritto:

        On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 6:40 AM, John Quentin Heywood
        <heywood@wcl.american.edu> wrote:

            Hi Folks,

            Couple of things:

            1. The GitHub repository was discussed in the main TC
            meeting this morning,
            as was other off-site tools such as GoogleDocs. Ken pointed
            us to the OASIS
            Technical Committee (TC) Process document at


            particularly Section 2.8 on TC Visability, which says:

            The official copies of all resources of the TC and its
            Subcommittees, including web pages, documents, email lists
            and any other
            records of discussions, must be located only on facilities
            designated by
            OASIS. TCs and SCs may not conduct official business or
            discussions, store documents, or host web pages on servers
            or systems not
            designated by OASIS. All web pages, documents, ballot
            results and email
            archives of all TCs and SCs shall be publicly visible.

            Both GitHub and GoogleDocs would seem to be in conflict with
            this, although
            as it was pointed out in the call, at least GitHub is an
            open standard,
            which can't be said about GoogleDocs. Many folks on the call
            were less than
            happy with the OASIS Wiki, which would seem to be the only
            collaboration tool available. It was suggested that getting
            the work done
            was important, so perhaps we could use private tools such as
            GitHub as long
            as we put the official documents on the SC's public document
            which would be here:


            and conduct our technical discussions on this listserv. This
            reasonable to me.

            Now Frank has been doing some wonderful work on GitHub,
            merging the reporter
            data from CourtListener and the CSL project with what we
            have been doing and
            making it truly usable for us and other projects (like the
            Free Law
            Project). He thinks we should open the repository up so that
            others can
            collaborate. I agree, and I think this would dovetail nicely
            with the OASIS
            rules. If the work being done on the GitHub repository is no
            officially OASIS work, we don't have to worry about their
            rules. The GitHub
            repository becomes a tool for the whole free law community,
            that we in the
            OASIS SC can use as a resource for our work. We could rename
            it to something
            like the "Court Citation Project" or even something less
            lame than that. How
            do folks feel about this?

            For some examples of what Frank has done, look at:





        One question: Should I then remove the reference to OASIS from the
        header of the online docs?


        That seems stingy, by it would indeed reduce the potential for
        to take the work-in-progress as some sort of draft standard.

        If I read correctly, then, the repo itself can be made public? That
        would be great - there are already people out there ready to
        contribute to the effort.

        Some notes about infrastructure changes in the works chez
        CourtsSC ...

        For the CourtsSC docs, the next step will be to generate them
        from a filesystem data hierarchy of the content (which exists as of
        yesterday), with links on each court and reporter to their discrete
        source files in the GitHub filesystem. I think GitHub now
        automatically performs a fork and pull request when people without
        write permissions to an edit, so that will give us easy-access
        by outside contributors, and an editorial workflow for maintaining
        control over the end product.

        For extension and reorganization of the source files through the
        GitHub online UI, I'll add an explanation of how that works to a
        README displayed on every source page. So that will be covered as

        Finally, we'll need to work on validation and output. For that, we
        should have a discussion about what the constraints should be
        producing parseable source and valid XML). Then I can start mucking
        around with code.

        With validation in place, we'll be ready to tie the whole thing
        into TravisCI.


        Once on-the-fly validation is working, we'll be ready for scalable

        I guess a final item will be the output. The current rendered
        view is
        handy for examining and working with the source structures, but
        machines will want something else. We should be able to generate it
        automatically, once we know what it is.


            2. In response to the discussion in our last SC meeting, and
            never being
            afraid to play the fool (or, if you ask my kids, BE the
            fool, but I
            digress), I asked the assembled TC what exactly a use case
            was, and what are
            we supposed to be producing. Everybody seemed happy that I
            had asked.
            Someone (I'm not sure who) described it thusly: HTML5 is the
            standard, a web
            page demonstrating all the different parts of HTML5 is the
            use case. John J.
            reminded us all that the SCs should not get lost in the
            weeds of detail, as
            he has seen other projects flounder because of it. We should
            be looking for
            the common things in these citations and writing them up. I
            think we may be
            close to ready for this in the US context very soon.

            Well, time to go home and make my eldest his birthday dinner
            (he turned 17


            John Quentin Heywood

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    Associate professor of Legal Informatics
    School of Law
    Alma Mater Studiorum Università di Bologna
    C.I.R.S.F.I.D. http://www.cirsfid.unibo.it/
    Palazzo Dal Monte Gaudenzi - Via Galliera, 3
    I - 40121 BOLOGNA (ITALY)
    Tel +39 051 277217
    Fax +39 051 260782
    E-mail monica.palmirani@unibo.it

    To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
    generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at:

Associate professor of Legal Informatics
School of Law
Alma Mater Studiorum Università di Bologna
C.I.R.S.F.I.D. http://www.cirsfid.unibo.it/
Palazzo Dal Monte Gaudenzi - Via Galliera, 3
Tel +39 051 277217
Fax +39 051 260782
E-mail  monica.palmirani@unibo.it

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