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Subject: Re: [oasis-member-discuss] OASIS namespace documents for URN namespaces


You lost me here:

Peter F Brown wrote:
> you shouldn't find anything at the end of a URI that purports to be an identifier except, well, 
 > something that helps identify the artefact being referenced.
 > An RDDL document is not an identifier - it is a resource descriptor;

I'm not a great theoretician, but it seems to me that sticking RDDL+HTML 
as the content dereferenced by an identifier URI is really useful. You 
say its not the only thing that could be dereferenced. I agree - the 
most common thing dereferenced from an identifier URI is a 404 Not Found 
HTML :-)

But seriously:

1) Can you please give an example of something better or more 
appropriate than a RDDL?
2) Can you explain how I can get better information about the meaning of 
a URN than I get from a well written HTML+RDDL document?


> ==================
> From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@us.ibm.com] 
> Sent: 18 June 2007 16:03
> To: Peter F Brown
> Cc: oasis-member-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org; robin.cover@oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [oasis-member-discuss] OASIS namespace documents for URN namespaces
> The OASIS TAB has published guidelines for namespace URIs (amongst other subjects related to 
> metadata) here: 
>         http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNaming.html 
> These guidelines include recommendation that namespace URIs be HTTP scheme URIs and that there 
> be a published RDDL document at the namespace URI location. URNs are permitted for use, but HTTP 
> scheme URIs are preferred/recommended since they can be resolved without additional machinery. Note 
> that OASIS hs no plans to implement such a resolution mechanism: 
>         http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNamingCommentaryV07.html#urnResolution 
> An example of these guidelines in action can be found with the WS-RX TC's WS-RM namespace URI: 
>         http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/wsrm/200702 
> Frankly, I don't personally see any material benefit to use of a URN scheme namespace. I suspect that 
> some believe that by using a URN, they have created a 'permanent identifier'. Well, frankly, there is no 
> reason why an HTTP scheme URI cannot be 'permanent'. It isn't as if OASIS is going to drop off the face of 
> the earth anytime soon. 
> Cheers, 
> Christopher Ferris
> STSM, Software Group Standards Strategy
> email: chrisfer@us.ibm.com
> blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/chrisferris
> phone: +1 508 234 2986 
> "Peter F Brown" <peter@pensive.eu> wrote on 06/18/2007 09:43:24 AM:
>> Paul:
>> I think the objective is laudable but I don't see the point of the
>> "http://www.oasis-open.org/namespace?ns="; part of the statement. Surely,
>> if some application wants to do something with the "pure" (and on its
>> own non-deferenceable) urn, then surely it will ba equipped to make that
>> call using http get or whatever.
>> By effectively tying a namespace to a derefereceable network endpoint
>> and to specific and prescribed dereferencing mechanism, is there not a
>> danger that you:
>> - either limit what can be legitimately found at the network endpoint to
>> an RDDL file only, cutting out other possible uses of the namespace;
>> - or creating false expectations and possible architectural problems
>> when unpredictable results come from finding something other than a RDDL
>> document at the end of the pipe.
>> On the other hand, I'd be in favour of a mechanism by which RDDL
>> documents, when available, can be accessed using a prescribed OASIS
>> managed URL to which you would tack the namespace urn.
>> Regards,
>> Peter
>> -------------
>> Peter F Brown
>> Chair, CEN eGovernment Focus Group
>> Founder, Pensive.eu
>> Co-Editor, OASIS SOA Reference Model
>> Lecturer at XML Summer School
>> ---
>> Personal:
>> +43 676 610 0250
>> http://public.xdi.org/=Peter.Brown
>> www.XMLbyStealth.net
>> www.xmlsummerschool.com
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Paul Denning [mailto:pauld@mitre.org] 
>> Sent: 30 May 2007 18:45
>> To: oasis-member-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Subject: [oasis-member-discuss] OASIS namespace documents for URN
>> namespaces
>> Some OASIS TC's use an HTTP URI when they define an XML 
>> Namespace.  Some TC's have started using RDDL as a namespace document 
>> when these namespace URI's are dereferenced using HTTP GET.
>> Other OASIS TC's use URN's to identify their XML Namespace.
>> I suggest that OASIS provide a mechanism to resolve a namespace 
>> document (RDDL or other) using HTTP and passing in the namespace URN 
>> in a query parameter.
>> For example,
>> http://www.oasis-open.org/namespace?ns=urn:oasis:names:tc:emergency:EDXL
>> :DE:1.0
>> would return a RDDL document associated with the EDXL-DE namespace.
>> Paul

Paul Fremantle
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