Re: [office] renewed proposal for new position and spaceattributesfor the list level

["Florian Reuter" <freuter@novell.com>]

Hi,

Ad 1):
I refer to the following exception rules:
<quote>
There exists two cases in which this additional tab stop isn't applied
to start the text of the first line of the list item after the list label:
 - The position of the additional tab stop is before the end of the
 list label.
 - Between the end of the list label and the position of the additional
 tab stop exists already a tab stop at the list item.
 In these cases an existing respectively a default tab stop is applied
 after the list label. The additional tab stop can be applied by normal
 inserted tab characters in the list item in these cases.
 The additional tab stop can also been applied in the text lines, which
 follow the first line of the list item.
</quote>
I guess they are not needed.

Ad 2):
The „text:label-aligned-at“ is a real problem for me. In my opinion it adds unneeded additional complexity.
I don’t understand what you mean with “it should be possible to specify the list item layout without considering the paragraph indent attributes“
Aren’t the paragraph properties considered in any way?

Ad 3):
We should not mix the usage of the attributes in “style:list-level-properties” and “style:list-level-label-alignment” since that would destroy backward compatibility with old readers.
E.g. it may be necessary for backward compatibility to tell old reader that the alignment is “left” according to the old numbering system and “center” according to the new one.

Summary:

The text:label-aligned-at is a real problem for me because it adds unneeded complexity and harms interoperability. When I understood your proposal correctly the text:label-aligned-at will be set to the left indent in all use cases anyway. So why do you want with additional complexity which is basically redundant information?

~Florian



>>> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann - Software Engineer - Sun Microsystems <Oliver-Rainer.Wittmann@Sun.COM> 03/02/07 11:38 AM >>>
Hi Florian,

Florian Reuter wrote:
> Hi Oliver,
> 
> thanks for a "readable" Version of the proposal.
> 
> I have the following questions:
> 
> a) text:list-tab-stop-position. I think the tab-stop should always be inserted if listtab is given. I don't understand
> the need for the exception rules.
It's already said, that text:list-tab-stop-position belongs to 
text:label-followed-by="listtab".

Which exception rules do you mean?
I clearly state, that text:list-tab-stop-position is only of relevance, 
when text:label-followed-by="listtab" is hold. There are no exceptions.

Do you mean that the two cases, when the list tab stop isn't applied, 
are exception rules?
If yes, I can say, that these cases aren't exception rules.

> 
> b) I don't understand the need for text:label-aligned-at. Especially I don't understand the reference to
> "text:minimum-label-width".
The need of text:label-aligned-at is, that the list item layout should 
be specified without considering the paragraph indent attributes.
I think it's better to have *one* attribute set to specify the layout of 
list items than to have *two* attribute sets.

The reference to text:minimum-label-width is only redundant information. 
That the value of text:minimum-label-width is treated as 0 is already 
stated at new attribute text:list-level-position-and-space-mode.
> 
> But I guess I understand the problem you're trying to solve.
> Let me suggest a different solution:
> - Remove the text:label-aligned-at and add a text:label-alignment = left | center | right
> - Specify that the number label is aligned left, centered or right wrt. to the first line indent.

I disagree, because
- as stated above, it should be possible to specify the list item layout 
  without considering the paragraph indent attributes.
- there exist already attribute fo:align-at, which hold the values 
"left", "center" and "right". Thus, there is no need to introduce 
another attribute like text:label-alignment.

Regards, Oliver.