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Subject: Re: [office] Conformance Clause proposal, Version 8

Hi Doug,

On 07.02.09 14:39, Doug Mahugh wrote:
> And another +1.  If we asked a non-TC member what "host language" means, it's hard for me to imagine that they'd come up with anything even remotely close to the concepts being discussed here.  It's the worst option on the table, in my opinion.

I still think that "host language conformance" is a good 
characterization of the conformance mode, but would like to know what 
you proposal how to name that conformance mode would be.

Best regards


> With that, I'll +1 to Dennis's final paragraph as well.
> - Doug
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com] 
> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 6:08 PM
> To: 'dennis.hamilton@acm.org'; 'Michael.Brauer@Sun.COM'
> Cc: 'office@lists.oasis-open.org'
> Subject: Re: [office] Conformance Clause proposal, Version 8
> +1 to Dennis's 1st paragraph.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton <dennis.hamilton@acm.org>
> To: Michael.Brauer@Sun.COM <Michael.Brauer@Sun.COM>
> Cc: 'OpenDocument Mailing List' <office@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Fri Feb 06 17:47:43 2009
> Subject: RE: [office] Conformance Clause proposal, Version 8
> I do want to disagree about the particular specialized term applying to the
> ODF conformance target that provides for the presence of foreign e-a-v.
> I searched around for the use of "host language document" and discovered
> that it is used essentially the opposite as we use it.  Documented
> extensions that use the core of another format with additions of their own
> claim "host language document type conformance."  In addition, the
> conformance level (for SMIL, SVG, and XHTML Modularization) is accompanied
> by rules for how such extensions are to be identified and integrated with
> the base format.  It appears that these are never meant to be processable as
> documents in the host language (although the host language may be an
> acceptable subset of consumable documents).  These seem to be about explicit
> provisions for making new format types having the conformant part of ODF
> documents as a base.  We do nothing to specifically provide for that (e.g.,
> requiring different mime types, requiring different schemas, identifying a
> core that must be preserved, etc).
> In our case, we don't describe anything about what the foreign
> elements-attributes-values are, other than they do not employ a namespace
> established for OpenDocument.  Instead of prescribing how a new format is
> established and differentiated, we specify a way to treat
> unsupported/unrecognized foreign f-a-v as if they are not present, with the
> residue being conformant.  These documents are presumably identified as ODF
> documents (e.g., using the standard MIME types) and having the root-required
> structure. 
> This ODF case seems different enough in spirit, purpose and detail to have a
> different name.  We should avoid the term in case we ever do want to provide
> for extension and host document format conformance in the manner typified by
> the XHTML Modularization specification and others that appeal to that model.
>  - Dennis
> PS: I am really done now.  I have nothing new to offer beyond this
> disagreement on appropriation of the term for our situation.
> References:
> [1] SMIL Host Language Conformance.  Section 2.4.1 in Synchronized
> Multimedia Integration Language(SMIL 2.0) - [Second Edition], W3C
> Recommendation 07 January 2005,
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/REC-SMIL2-20050107/>, Available at
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/REC-SMIL2-20050107/smil-modules.html#smilModulesN
> SSMILHostLanguageConformance>.  I suspect that the incorporation of SMIL
> into ODF Document Format is not via the host-language conformance model.
> [2] XHTML Host Language Document Type Conformance.  Section 3.1 in XHTML
> Modularization 1.1, W3C Recommendation 8 October 2008
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xhtml-modularization-20081008/>.  Available
> at
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xhtml-modularization-20081008/conformance.htm
> l#s_conform_document_type>.
> [3] RDFa Test Suite.  Editor's Draft, 2007-06-29, available at
> <http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/>.  This document refers to a
> "host language" for embedding RDFa, but the approved RDFa specification
> appears to have no such terminology, nor does the RDF specification.
> Likewise, XFORMS is designed to be embedded in host languages, but the term
> is used informally, although included in the glossary [4].
> [4] XForms 1.0 (Third Edition), W3C Recommendation 29 October 2007
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-xforms-20071029/>.  In this specification,
> the definition of Host Language is as "an XML vocabulary, such as XHTML,
> into which XForms is embedded."  It is interesting that, under Conformance,
> "A host language may introduce additional conformance requirements" and
> there are some interesting specifications on what all XForms Processors must
> fully support and what an XForms Full Processor must support.  There are
> also interesting conditions on Conforming XForms Documents, including the
> proviso that "a host language may introduce additional conformance
> requirements," but there are some impressive basic conformance requirements
> without having more.  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org] 
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office/200902/msg00079.html
> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 16:16
> To: 'Michael.Brauer@Sun.COM'
> Cc: 'OpenDocument Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: [office] Conformance Clause proposal, Version 8
> I would really like a simple adjective.  I understand the concept, I just
> don't think it is usefully applied as a name for a conformance level.  I
> also don't think it means anything until defined specifically as a
> conformance level for ODF, so it is no better than "loose," just different.
> I'm note even sure how to use "host language conformant" in a sentence.
> I'll go review your use of it and see how it reads.
> [ ... ]
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