Re: [office] Proposal for style:list-style-name

[Regina Henschel <regina.henschel@libreoffice.org>]

Hi Michael, hi members,

Michael Stahl schrieb:
> On 13.06.2017 22:56, Regina Henschel wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have started with a proposal in file ProposalDraft.odt. I have added
> > my suggestions in Blue on the first page. The yellow frames contain some
> > questions and remarks.
>
> you want to add:

Text missing?

> > The list style specified by this attribute is applied to headings that are not contained in a list.
>
> i now realized the way we approached this, by focusing on how the number
> should be formatted, via outline style or numbering style, is asking the
> wrong question, or at least ignoring one very important aspect.
>
> namely: how do you determine the number of a heading in the first place,
> i.e. its "index" in the "sequence"?

Indeed, that aspect has not been addressed so far.

> to determine the number of a list item you have to know which list it's
> in, hence using the numbering style without a list-item / list element
> doesn't make sense.

In case the heading is not inside a list, I expect, that it is similar 
to using the <text:outline-style> element.

> the effect you want to have is that you want a heading to be numbered
> not as a heading but as an item of a separate list, so you need to
> "connect" the heading elements by actually putting them into a list element.
>
> if they're not in a list, how do you know if all of them should be
> numbered consecutively, or if there are several different numberings,
> with restarts in the middle?

Getting the numbering sequence works in case of <text:outline-style> 
without creating artificial lists. Here it would be the same, only that 
you need to track the name of the list style in addition, so that you do 
not have only one sequence "outline-style" but several sequences.

> all of that is encoded as attributes on text:list / text:list-item
> elements such as xml:id, text:continue-numbering...

In case of "outline-style" it is encoded in text:restart-numbering and 
the text:start-value attributes of the <text:h> element. No list 
involved. That should work for other list-styles too.

> for example, you may want to have un-numbered top-level headings
> "Prologue" and "Epilogue" in addition to numbered chapters and
> differently numbered appendixes.

You can have one sequence built of the outline-style and another 
sequence built on a list-style or you can have two sequences built on 
two different list-styles.

To get an un-numbered top-level heading in LibreOffice, I create a 
paragraph style with "Outline level 1" and numbering "none", which 
generates a <text:h> element without any list, and a 
style:list-style-name="" attribute in the paragraph style which is 
applied to the <text:h> element.

> > Producers should keep the value of the text:outline-level attribute in sync with the list level, because in several elements (e.g. 7.3.8 <text:chapter>, 8.3.2 <text:table-of-content-source>) not the list level but the outline level is evaluated.
>
> i am not sure if we should say "should" here.  i hope ODF specifies
> unambiguously which level is used in any given element?

A heading inside a list has a level given by its text:outline-level 
attribute and a level given by its list-position inside a nesting of 
lists. I have not found a specification, what level to use. Therefore I 
have added the preference of the list level.

Using the list level is the current way in LibreOffice. But LibreOffice 
generates lot of problems for the users, because it does not keep 
outline-level and list-level in sync. See LibreOffice bugtracker 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86905 or id=62032 
(with duplicates) or id=42920 and some (e.g. id=78519), which are 
falsely closed as "worksforme", because outline-style was seen as only 
valid way to get an outline numbering.

> if i understand right, we are not concerned about Consumers "getting it
> wrong", but about usability issues; maybe a non-normative note is
> sufficient?

I have not yet tested the case "list level and outline level are 
different" in the different applications I have got.

> [..]
> > The second and further pages contain problems in regard to numbering,
> > which I think have to be solved. I have attached two test documents and
> > have made screen shots from some application I have got on my PC.
> > Although I consider some renderings in WebODF and ONLYOFFICE as bugs or
> > missing feature, the differences between Word 2010, TextMaker and
> > LibreOffice are immense. Perhaps someone has got additional applications
> > on Linux or Mac and can make screen shots from them?
>
> i think the biggest problem with these test documents is that they
> contain a single text:list element and no text:style-name attribute and
> multiple items each containing a paragraph with a style that wants a
> different list style.  i expect there should be only one list style per
> list, so which one to choose?

If you have a text:style-name attribute in the <text:list> element, then 
you get an ordinary list. But my problems are about the second case in 
19.874.22 <text:list> and similar in 5.3.2 Default List Style
"If this attribute is not included and therefore no list style is 
specified, one of the following actions is taken:

    ● [..]

    ● If there is no list style specified for the surrounding list, but 
the list's list items contain paragraphs that have paragraph styles 
attached specifying a list style, that list style is used."

It does not say, that these styles must be the same. If that is 
intended, then we should add this to the specification. Or do you know 
another place in the spec, where it is handled?


I stop here, because it is already late in the evening for me.

Kind regards
Regina