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Subject: chat notes - ODF teleconference - 14 August 2017

Hello all,

Our chat notes from the ODF Teleconference - 14 August 2017.
Halfway the meeting Jos took over chair from Patrck.


Patrick: quorum

Patrick: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-3928

Patrick had a minor comment on this proposal, a copying error.

Jos: How to handle chart rectangles for 3d charts?

Camilla: how is backwards compatibility handled?

Regina: LO writes svg:width and svg:height in plotarea for backwards compat.

Camilla: should we not require the width and height on plot-area?

Jos: specifying width and height of the plot-area allows playing with 
the margin

Regina: LO only shows one method in the UI

Regina: so the plot rectangle implies the plot-area size in LO

Camilla: that should not prevent others from writing it

If relation between plotarea width and height and graph rectangle is 
fixed, we should specify what the relationship is

Patrick: if there is a single coordinate system in the coordinate-region 
and you do not support that, you are ok with just recording width and 
height in plot-area

but the new proposal would make the position of the coordinate-region 
independent of the plot-area

Regina: the proposal states that these values should be ignored if 
coordinate-region is supported

Patrick: what is the fallback if you do not support coordinate-region? 
would recording width and height do any good?

Regina: so you want width and height be calculated such that they are in 
agreement with coordinate-region?

Patrick: is that possible?

Jos: can we specify this calculation in the same way such that 
application are interoperable?

Camilla: if there is such a calculation, why change the spec?

Jos: so implicit in this proposal is that calculating the relationship 
is hard, and that positioning the coordinate-region precisely is more 

Regina: If you have month on one axis and you change the label from full 
to one character, that will resize the coordinate-region currently

with this specification, the labels can ge changed without changing 

this make it easier to align different charts

Camilla: still, you could calculate the coordinate-region, so you could 
store all values

Regina: it is convenient to have these values in macros

Camilla: how do you mean?

Camilla: ok it makes sense

Regina: For applications that do not support this, nothing changes.

Camilla: if an application does not support coordinate-region, how does 
the application know the sizeof the plotarea

Regina: the size is calculated in the same way as now

Camilla: I'm worried about applications that do not write plot-area 
width and height

Camilla: the 'should' should be a 'must'

Regina: a 'shall'

Jos: the width and height of plot-area should be stored, but the 
coordinate-region information takes precedence if there is a conflict, 
when the application cannot manage to fit the plot in the size given by 
width and height of plotarea

Jos: is the relationship hard?

Regina: you need to get size and position of labels and consider the pie 
chart where wedge breaks out

Regina: the calculation of the bounding rectangle of coordinate-region 
with labels is the hard part

Jos: Since label size depends on font size and many other things, this 
calculation is hard

Camilla: the dimension of the plot-area would be the bounding rectangle

Jos: so is x and y in plot-area also implicit now?

Jos: because labels can also be on top of coordinate-region

Camilla: yes, the bounding rect is hard to calculate

Jos: maybe there should be two modes? on where you fix the 
coordinate-region and one where you fix the plot-area?

Jos because clipping and overlap are also important concerns

Camilla: when would you want that?

Jos: it must have seemed sensible at the time to have the plot-area 
specify the graph layout

Camilla: having the coordinate-region at all triggers that you want the 
other mode

Jos: indeed, it already says this: If an element 
<chart:coordinate-region> is present, the attributes svg:x, svg:y, 
svg:width and svg:height at the element <chartlot-area> shall be ignored.

Camilla: with the addition that plot-area *ahall* be written for 
backwards compatibility, this is fine.

Regina: <chart:coordinate-region> is for the underlying object, not the 
size of the 3d object

Jos: if there are graphs where none of the walls are parallel to the 
document layer, what does that mean for the <chart:coordinate-region>?

Regina: you can have a true 3d scene

Regina: chart:three-dimensional is not specified in depth (true / false)

Jos: with 'true 3d' you mean dr3d namespace things i guess

Jos: those also can be applied to normal <draw:rect> etc, so there must 
be rule on how to deal with those

Jos: svg:width on chart:floor and chart:wall are not of influence of on 
<chart:coordinate-region> but do affect plot-area

Regina:  <chart:chart> in the attached file 
(LO_3D_ColumnChart_12extended.fods) has 3d information in chartlot-area, 
but not on coordinate-region

Regina: the attribute on coordinate-region are the sizes of the result 
of the projection

Jos: the handles in LO show the bounding box around the project, that 
fits what Regina says

Andreas: then how does that help with lining up? The handles are not 
where I expect them to be

Jos: in the 3d case <chart:coordinate-region> is the bounding box of the 
axes, just like in the 2d case

but in the 2d case the meaning is easier (everything is harder in 3d)

The alternative would be that the front wall would correspond to 

Regina: excel does not have the option of 3d projection

Camilla we should specify how to handle the <chart:coordinate-region> in 3d

Jos: should we lock the coordinate region to the front wall or to the 
bounding box?

Regina: I will investigate before we discuss furthere

Jos: If you have more questions about this spec please mail them before 
the next meeting?

Regina: should I add the 'shall' statement?

Camilla: yes

With that, the meeting is suspended
Jos van den Oever
co-chair OpenDocument Format Technical Committee
Ministry of the Interior and Kingdom Relations
Center for Standards | Logius
Wilhelmina van Pruisenweg 52 | 2595 AN | Den Haag
Postbus 96810 | 2509 JE | Den Haag
M +31(0)6-54715404

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