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Subject: Re: [oiic-formation-discuss] Proposed Use case -- Interoperability in vertical and horizontal ODF markets
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 5:09 AM, <robert_weir@us.ibm.com> wrote: > > So we're all on the same page, note that ODF 1.1 section 1.5 says > "Conforming applications that read and write documents may preserve foreign > elements and attributes." We are not on the same page. You simply continue to duck both the merits of my use case and the violence done to all versions subsequent to OASIS ODF 1.0 at JTC 1 when Patrick Durusau switched the requirements keywords definitions specified in section 1.2 to ISO/IEC Guidelines definitions from RFC 2119 definitions without doing a solitary thing to fix the mischief he wrought. Compare OASIS ODF 1.0, <http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/12572/OpenDocument-v1.0-os.pdf>, with ISO/IEC:26300 OpenDocument, <http://standards.iso.org/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/index.html> (near bottom of page; compare section 1.2 in both). Here is what "may" meant throughout OASIS ODF 1.0: "5. MAY This word, or the adjective "OPTIONAL", mean that an item is truly optional. One vendor may choose to include the item because a particular marketplace requires it or because the vendor feels that it enhances the product while another vendor may omit the same item. An implementation which does not include a particular option MUST be prepared to interoperate with another implementation which does include the option, though perhaps with reduced functionality. In the same vein an implementation which does include a particular option MUST be prepared to interoperate with another implementation which does not include the option (except, of course, for the feature the option provides.) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt>. Two *mandatory* MUST interoperability conformance requirements in every occurrence of "may" in the spec, toggled off by Patrick Durusau at JTC 1 after the national standardization body ("NB") ballot despite OASIS ODF 1.0's unanimous adoption as was by the NBs. There never was an NB ballot to adopt the altered version as the international standard. That presents a rather interesting legal situation because ISO/IEC is a private standards development body, not a government standards body, and only ISO/IEC rules and policies allow alteration of an international standard after it is voted on by the NBs. But the Agreement on Technical Barriers is superior, international law that squarely places the obligation to adopt international standards and technical regulations on the Member nations of that treaty, i.e., the NBs that vote on its adoption. So there is a very strong case --- even without looking at the substance of the two versions --- that OASIS ODF 1.0 in the form it was voted on by the NBs is the true international standard, not the massacred version adopted by ISO/IEC as ISO/IEC:26300. In other words, it is doubtful at best that the World Trade Organization Appellate Body would hold that ISO/IEC:26300 is the true international standard. That is even more likely because the massacred version is not in fact a standard. ISO/IEC:26300 does not specify [i] *all* characteristics [ii] of an identifiable product [iii] only in mandatory "must" and "must not" terms. OASIS ODF 1.0 is not perfect, but it comes exponentially closer to those criteria than any subsequent version. But regardless of which is the official international standard, the Durusau Massacre of ODF has not been repaired in any version and just about everyone runs for cover or changes the subject every time I raise the subject. Every interop conformance requirement in the spec having to do with elements and attributes other than the requirement of parking foreign elements and attributes in a unique application namespace blinked out of existence through the magic of changing two words to to four in section 1.2. Of course your company and Sun would have to reprogram the OOo code base to conform to the RFC 2119 definition, e.g., your apps would be required to be able to write to unextended ODF to claim conformance and they'd have to stop trashing foreign elements and attributes indiscriminately amongst other issues discussed below. So I think I have a pretty good understanding of where IBM is coming from when you say you want to drop the foreign elements and attributes. IBM doesn't want to share interop with anyone but folks who clone the OOo code base. Even there, IBM distributes its own clones of the OOo code base only in proprietary binary form, so IBM gets to extend its own ODF apps even beyond the extensions OOo writes and hide the functionality of its extensions without even source code for the FOSS community to decode, yet still claim conformance. IBM wants to keep the ODF "standard" the same blank check it's been since the Durusau Massacre, the Massacre that handed IBM and Sun a blank check to embrace and extend the standard without maintaining any ability to write to unextended ODF. E.g., run these parts from the conformance section through the RFC 2119 filter that imposes two mandatory interop conformance requirements on every occurrence of MAY in the standard: (quoted from OASIS ODF 1.0 because it uses capitalized letters where later versions use bold face): "Conforming applications that read and write documents MAY preserve foreign elements and attributes. In addition to this, conforming applications should preserve meta information and the content of styles. This means: "• The various <style:*-properties> elements (see section 15) MAY have arbitrary attributes attached and MAY have arbitrary element content. All attributes attached to these elements and elements contained within these elements SHOULD be preserved (see section 15.1.3); "• elements contained within the <office:meta> element MAY have arbitrary element content and SHOULD be preserved (see section 2.2.1). "Foreign elements MAY have an office:process-content attribute attached that has the value true or false. If the attribute's value is true, or if the attribute does not exist, the element's content SHOULD be processed by conforming applications. Otherwise conforming applications SHOULD NOT process the element's content, but MAY only preserve its content. If the element's content should be processed, the document itself MUST be valid against the OpenDocument schema if the unknown element is replaced with its content only." Poof. There went the *mandatory* ODF document round-trip interop framework so the apps that don't write extensions could still talk to the ones that do but retain no ability to write to unextended ODF. Bye-bye. Poof. There went the *mandatory* requirement that the embracers and extenders had to remain capable of writing to unextended ODF. Bye-bye. Poof. There went the *mandatory* requirement throughout the spec that, "[a]n implementation which does not include a particular option MUST be prepared to interoperate with another implementation which does include the option, though perhaps with reduced functionality." Bye-bye. Poof. There went the *mandatory* requirement throughout the spec that "an implementation which does include a particular option MUST be prepared to interoperate with another implementation which does not include the option (except, of course, for the feature the option provides.)" Bye-bye. Poof. The following unchanged sentence in the conformance section acquired an entirely different meaning for *every* element and attribute in the standard: "There are no rules regarding the elements and attributes that actually have to be supported by conforming applications, except that applications should not use foreign elements and attributes for features by the OpenDocument schema." With the *mandatory* interoperability conformance requirements gone from every optional feature, the sentence became a blank check to destroy even conformant unextended metadata and still claim conformance. Bye-bye. Which brings us down to the lament of last September written by Thomas Zander, the lead developer for the KDE KWord word processor and a member of the ODF TC: "One thing I have always dreamed to be possible is that when I write a doc in KOffice I can then open it in OOo to use that one feature that's useful to me and then save it and continue in KOffice without loosing lots of data. Its still a dream, of course. Most features are lost on opening and saving it in OOo, but its a nice goal[.]" <http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/odf-adoption/200709/msg00032.html>. Thus, the IBM-Sun oligopoly can claim conformance even as they trash conformant, unextended ODF generated by other conformant apps to make sure that ODF "competitive" playing field doesn't become level. They rule the ODF market by market share and all versions of ODF after OASIS ODF 1.0 became standards in name only, a de facto standards disguised in the clothing of a de jure standard. All because of the Durusau Massacre of ODF. Rob, you keep telling people how ODF 1.2 is the answer to any substantive issue raised about ODF interop. It's irrelevant to what can be done with the profile-related work on this TC because it is not yet stable. Moreover, it is derivative of what I've got good grounds for believing is not in fact the international standard. But I think you ascribe trustworthiness to someone who has not earned that trust. <http://blogs.sun.com/ontherecord/entry/patrick_durusau>: "Noted XML standards expert Patrick Durusau will edit the 1.2 release of the ISO/IEC Open Document Format (ODF), currently being developed in the OASIS standards body. Durusau will be repeating the role he played as editor of ODF 1.0, which was unanimously approved as an International Standard in May 2006. He is also the chair of the Metadata subcommittee in OASIS. "Durusau's contract, sponsored by Sun Microsystems, allows him to continue a role he had during the development of ODF v 1.0 and 1.1 in OASIS, and in the submission of 1.0 to the ISO/IEC fast track process." Ah, yes. The same Patrick Durusau who helped IBM and Sun trash the RDF metadata preservation requirements in ODF v. 1.2 by changing every occurrence of "shall preserve" to "should preserve," to block the only other possible way the FOSS da Vinci plug-ins could round-trip documents in ODF formats with MS Office and OOo using ODF as the intermediary, the same Patrick Durusau who has been kissing up to Microsoft and was such a tremendous force in getting OOXML through JTC 1, trading on his reputation as the ODF Editor. E.g., <http://www.durusau.net/publications/publications.html>. Take that "may" you're so pleased you found and stuff it in the RFC definition of "may," then re-read the entire conformance section with that set of eyes on. The conformance section means something entirely different if the definition of "may" the standard was designed around is used. Implementor discretion MUST be severely curtailed if anything serious is going to get done about the ODF interop mess and my use case exposes those problems. The foreign element and attributes provisions, including their metadata preservation requirements, were designed by Phil Boutros of Stellent as a framework for round-tripping documents with legacy apps and as a way for apps to round-trip extended ODF without data loss. It is more than telling that IBM now wants to drop the ODF framework for round-tripping documents completely rather than to even talk about fixing the ODF interop mess exposed by my use case, the interop mess in the standard created by the Durusau Massacre. You only supply further proof of of IBM's actual anti-ODF interop agenda. You can appeal to the ignorance of the mob all you want, but my use case proposal is on the record of this meeting along with you own and Sutor's prior statements on the subject of my use case.IBM and Sun litigate my use case against Microsoft and OOXML in the E.U. and falsely advertise ODF as designed for interoperability whilst simultaneously ducking the same use case in regard to ODF. You do no more than spatter the record of my proposal with your mental feces without addressing my proposal's merits. You merely sink yourself, Sutor, and IBM deeper into the antitrust sharks' jaws every time you reply with more distractions. It won't be the folks here who determine liability. Past time for that first step on the IBM interop walk. Way past time. Warmest personal regards, Paul E. Merrell, J.D. (Marbux) -- Universal Interoperability Council <http:www.universal-interop-council.org>
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