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Subject: Re: [opendocument-users] simple OO.org document goes awry in MS Office2007 w/SP2 - what went wrong?
hi Paul, marbux wrote: > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 4:47 AM, Michael Stahl<Michael.Stahl@sun.com> wrote: >> hi Paul, >> >> marbux wrote: >>> If we are to lend credence to both the earlier and later >>> statements, one might infer that KDE and Sun worked out their interop >>> issues at the application level but didn't go to the trouble of >>> submitting corresponding proposals to fix the spec so others could >>> benefit from the knowledge they gained through their collaboration. >> this claim is demonstrably false. >> see e.g. "Proposal to enhance and clarify lists" by David Faure, Thomas >> Zander and Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: >> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/23418/07-04-05-proposal-lists.odt > > Sorry, Michael, but you're wrong. I remember the "List Enhancement > Proposal" well because it was hugely controversial on the TC. It only > affects a few edge cases on ordered lists, or at least that's what > Michael Brauer said. He also admitted that it was a trade-off between > features and compatibility, with compatibility the loser. my point was that there is an instance of a ODF proposal with authors from both the KDE and OOo projects, falsifying your claim above that such proposals do not exist. > The problem was that because of an ambiguity in the spec, KWord had > implemented ordered lists differently from OOWriter. The amazing fix > that Sun and KDE came up with was to allow implementations the choice > between using list tuples or list triples. This was so KDE wouldn't > have to write a converter for their ODF 1.0-1.1 documents. not true: the 2 ways of representing lists (list/list-item and numbered-paragraph) were already in ODF 1.0 > But it was anything but an interoperability fix. Consider that we'll > now have some apps apps out there expecting list triples and others > expecting list tuples. Now think about a processing chain where the > next app to process the document is unpredictable. One can map list > tuples to list triples, but going the other direction doesn't work so > well. given that both representations are valid ODF 1.0, this is not exactly a new problem. > So we got a work-around to avoid KDE having to write a converter for > its legacy documents, a break in compatibility with ODF 1.0/1.1, and a > break in compatibility between ODF apps and MS Word, which does list > tuples. That wasn't exactly good news to the Foundation developers who > were developing ODF plug-ins for MS Office that could round trip > between the Microsoft legacy formats and ODF without data loss. > > Short story: That was not an interop fix and it says more about the > ODF TC's indifference to interoperability than anything else. huh? personally, i had no problem implementing numbered-paragraph import in OOo, given the clarifications in the proposal which made the job a lot easier. > Best regards, > > Paul regards, michael -- Michael Stahl mailto:email@example.com http://www.sun.de OpenOffice.org/StarOffice Writer Sun Microsystems GmbH Nagelsweg 55, 20097 Hamburg, Germany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Sitz der Gesellschaft: Sun Microsystems GmbH, Sonnenallee 1, D-85551 Kirchheim-Heimstetten Amtsgericht München: HRB 161028 Geschäftsführer: Thomas Schröder, Wolfgang Engels, Wolf Frenkel Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Martin Häring