- DRAFT -

Oasis SCA-Assembly Teleconference

02 NOV 2010

Attendees

Eric Wells	Hitachi, Ltd.
Bryan Aupperle	IBM
David Booz	IBM
Graham Charters	IBM
Mike Edwards	IBM
Simon Holdsworth	IBM
Diane Jordan	IBM
Peter Niblett	IBM
Jeff Estefan	Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Martin Chapman	Oracle Corporation
Andreas Egloff	Oracle Corporation
Anish Karmarkar	Oracle Corporation
Rich Levinson	Oracle Corporation
Jonathan Maron	Oracle Corporation
Jeff Mischkinsky	Oracle Corporation
Gilbert Pilz	Oracle Corporation
Sanjay Patil	SAP AG
Plamen Pavlov	SAP AG
Eric Johnson	TIBCO Software Inc.
Danny van der Rijn	TIBCO Software Inc.
Scott Vorthmann	TIBCO Software Inc.

Chairs

Martin Chapman
Mike Edwards

Scribe

Eric Wells

Agenda:

1. Intro

Roll call
Scribe confirmation
Agenda bashing

2. Approval of minutes of previous SCA-Assembly TC meeting

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/40043/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202010-10-26.html

3. Action Items

id=2010-09-22-3 status=done owner="Anish" Produce concrete proposal for ASSEMBLY-241 based on directional resolution in F2F minutes
id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227
id=2010-09-22-9 status=pending Raise issue WRT cardinality of channels

4. TC Administrivia

a) Public Review of Test Suite Adaptation and Implementation Type Documentation Requirements for SCA Assembly Model v1.1
- ended 30 October 2010

One comment received:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly-comment/201010/msg00000.html

5. New Issues (1.2)

ASSEMBLY-249: Need some notion of "callback" address in conjunction with eventing
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-249

ASSEMBLY-250: Need an equivalent to "autowire" for the eventing world
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-250

Consideration of email relating to the Test Suite Adaptation and Implementation Type Documentation Requirements for SCA Assembly Model v1.1:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201011/msg00000.html

ASSEMBLY-251: [1.2] There is a need to restrict the Cardinality of connections to Channels
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-251

ASSEMBLY-252: (v1.1): SCA Runtime Conformance Language & Normative References
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-252

7. 1.2 Specification Open Issues

ASSEMBLY-235: Remotable interface compatibility should not be restricted to a WSDL 1.1 mapping
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-235

Outline Proposal:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201010/msg00023.html

ASSEMBLY-238: (1.2): eventType element, EventType type declared twice in schema, eventType.xsd used but not defined
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-238

Proposal:

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/39973/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01-issue238v1.doc
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/39974/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01-issue238v1.pdf

ASSEMBLY-239: (1.2): Business data filter element needs better name, definition
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-239

Proposal in JIRA

ASSEMBLY-233: Define how Policy works for SCA Eventing
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-233

No Proposal

ASSEMBLY-241: binding decl for producer/consumer are problematic
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-241

Proposal:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201010/msg00085.html
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/40056/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01-issue241v1.doc
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/40057/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01-issue241v1.pdf

ASSEMBLY-243: Is the default channel configurable?
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-243

No proposal

ASSEMBLY-244: How to enable extensibility to multiple bindings on a channel
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-244

Outline proposal in JIRA

ASSEMBLY-245: Adopt the WS-RA Event Description specification to declare SCA Event Types
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-245

Proposal in JIRA

ASSEMBLY-246: Provide Location within SCA Contributions for eventType Declarations
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-246

Proposal in JIRA

ASSEMBLY-227: Promotion of consumers and producers undermines composability
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-227

Proposal
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201004/msg00044.html
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/37273/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01-issue-227.pdf
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/37272/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01-issue-227.doc

Discussion from F2F:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/39643/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202010-09-22.html

ASSEMBLY-247: What are the requirements on an SCA Binding for eventing purposes?
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-247

No proposal

ASSEMBLY-248: RFC2119 wording and conformance statement need to be added for event processing
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-248

No proposal

8. AOB

Minutes

Opening

Roll call 16/22 = 72%

Agenda - accepted as posted

MikeE:

Notes that agenda is expanding and we really need to get some of the issues resolved

Minutes of 2010-10-26

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/40043/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202010-10-26.html

No comments or objections

Resolution: Minutes of 2010-10-26 accepted w/o

Action Items

id=2010-09-22-3 status=done owner="Anish" Produce concrete proposal for ASSEMBLY-241 based on directional resolution in F2F minutes

id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201010/msg00071.html

EricJ:

Please provide comments wrt acceptability of new proposal

id=2010-09-22-9 status=done owner="MikeE" Raise issue WRT cardinality of channels

Administrivia

a) Public Review of Test Suite Adaptation and Implementation Type Documentation Requirements for SCA Assembly Model v1.1
- ended 30 October 2010

One comment received:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly-comment/201010/msg00000.html

From Microsoft (Michael Champion) thanking TC for work on Implementation Type & Test Suite Adaption doc's

MikeE:

Notes that MS is expection these to be approved as Committee Specification

JeffM:

How can these be linked to existing docs?

MikeE:

Point to existing implementation types (as example)

(Note JeffM for roll)

JeffM:

We could/should ask MS if they have used these docs (e.g. for C#) and if they would share with TC

Action: owner=JeffM Draft response to MS asking for implementation experience with docs

New Issues

MikeE:

Lot of discussion on E-mail list - not all messages linked in minutes

...Please concnetrate on OPENING issues - not proposals

ASSEMBLY-249: Need some notion of "callback" address in conjunction with eventing
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-249

EricJ:

Reviews issue

...from internal discussion - notion of "reply" to event messages

...Producer can add "replyTo" to messages - either to producer or third party

...reply is not necessarliy required and producer has no control over consumer

AnishK:

Similar to "wiredByImpl" allow binding & policy but don't want to explicity wire

...but event's don't allow bindings so doesn't seem appropriate

...Also greatly complicates application of Policy

PeterN:

Adds/transforms model into message flow model - quite different from existing model

...may be useful at application level, but not appropriate in Assembly spec

...Maybe for version 1.3?

don't we have oneway operations precisely to handle less loosely defined message exchanges?

EricJ:

Some of our customers are using similar model so thinks it would be good to formalize in spec

...otherwise TIBCO will have to add extension to support this model

MartinC:

Use case OK, but can't understand how it fits in SCA

...requires producers/consumer are aware of each other and this is explicitly NOT part of the SCA model

MikeE:

Use case can already be supported by service/reference using one-way and callback

...callback can have any number of messages and can use many different protocols

...Just because JMS can support this doesn't mean SCA should

...Sort of imposes obligation on consumer to produce response and that is not part of SCA model

DannyV:

Want to "bind" "EPR" of subsequent producer - ie consumer who receives original "replyTo" message

the two wsdl meps that are ignore are ignored for a reason, no one could define how it works

DannyV:

Also SCA ignores some WSDL message patterns

eventing isnt really about message patterns its about a different style of application interactions

Note DannyV for roll

PeterN:

Echos MartinC's comment - WS-I explicitly profiled them out due to being unable to figure them out

it would be nice to get to a motion;-)

...WSDL "replyTo" was introduced to allow pub/sub on a point-to-point message network

In services/references, sequences of one-way messages between 2 components, in both directions, organised via callbacks, are very close to event processing EXCEPT that the parties involved can be closely controlled AND the requirement for a response is defined by the actual presence of the callback interface

Note there's approx 10 minutes left

Thanks Eric ;-)

AnishK:

Note sure use case justifies

DannyV:

Question of who (producer/consumer) gets to define "replyTo"

...in pub/sub subscribers can really be allowed to define "return address"

DannyV:

Gives purchasing example illustration need for producer to set "replyTo"

Chair notes that there's been a lot of discussion and would like to see a motion

Motion: m=EricJ s=DannyV Open ASSEMBLY-249

Discussion

AnishK:

If understood you want to be able to dynamically state where messages are sent

...this makes application of policy really difficult

especially from an assemblers point of view

MartinC:

Issues not adequately described in ASSEMBLY-249 - needs rewriting

PeterN:

+1 to Martin - not explicit enough

EricJ:

Would be reticent to rewrite without help from others or will just end up going round in circles

Chair notes virtually out of time - motion allowed to expire

MikeE:

Encourages collaboration to refine ASSEMBLY-249

AOB

Stragglers

JeffM, GrahamC, DannyV, ScottV

roll is fixed: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/event.php?event_id=28480

thanks EricW

MartinC:

Probably will not be able to make next week

MikeE:

Also at a conference but should be able to run call

...don't want to cancel unless absolutely necessary

Meeting adjourned 9:03AM PDT

Many thanks Eric - that was not an easy meeting to scribe

Schreiber diagnostics output

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final validation: Title not specified, default title 'Oasis SCA-Assembly Teleconference...' was assumed

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edits: Line 33: s/From/... from/

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citation-detection-scribed: Line 30: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'ASSEMBLY-249'

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citation-detection-scribed: Line 120: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'Meeting adjourned 9'

system: Transformer: SAXON 9.2.1.2

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sca-assembly message

- DRAFT -

Oasis SCA-Assembly Teleconference

02 NOV 2010

Attendees

Chairs

Scribe

Agenda:

Contents

Action Items

Resolutions

Minutes

Opening

Action Items

Administrivia

New Issues

AOB

Schreiber diagnostics output