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Subject: Re: [sca-bpel] raw minutes from 2008-mar-20 telcon
Hi Charlton, w.r.t. the doc/pdf/htm Committee Draft versions, you entered
...
[16:02] scribe: Dieter: I've already placed the three versions in the zip
archive and posted it
... two hours before I actually did it :-)
Anyway, they can be found at
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/document.php?document_id=27653
(the automatic notification from the OASIS web site does not seem to work
today).
Kind Regards
DK
Dieter König Mail: dieterkoenig@de.ibm.com IBM Deutschland Entwicklung GmbH
Senior Technical Staff Member Tel (office): (+49) 7031-16-3426 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats:
Martin Jetter
Architect, Business Process Fax (office): (+49) 7031-16-4890 Geschäftsführung: Herbert Kircher
Choreographer
Member, Technical Expert Council Tel (home office): (+49) 7032-201464 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen
Schönaicher Strasse 220, 71032 Registergericht: Amtsgericht
Böblingen, Germany Stuttgart, HRB 243294
From: "Charlton Barreto" <barreto@adobe.com>
To: "SCA-BPEL TC" <sca-bpel@lists.oasis-open.org>
Date: 20.03.2008 21:24
Subject: [sca-bpel] raw minutes from 2008-mar-20 telcon
Minutes in raw format:
[13:37] Room information was updated by: charlton
Dial-in:
1-888-967-2253
+1-650-607-2253
+61-2-8817-6100
+44-118-924-9000
Meeting ID: 877770
Meeting password: SCABPEL (7222735)
Web-conf: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/sca-bpel-TC
Acrobat connect room URL: http://my.adobe.acrobat.com/scabpel/
[15:05] anish: Agenda:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/event.php?event_id=16246
[15:07] charltonb: Roll Call
[15:08] charltonb:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/roster.php
[15:08] charltonb: 9 of 13 voting members attending
[15:08] charltonb: quorate
[15:09] charltonb: Agenda Bashing
[15:09] charltonb:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00018.html
[15:09] charltonb: Scribe: Charlton
[15:09] scribe: Anish: Agenda never made it to the mailing list, but is
available on the website
[15:10] scribe: Anish: Any changes to the agenda?
[15:10] Dieter Koenig: 1. Roll Call
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/roster.php
2. Appointment of scribe
Rotating list attached below
3. Agenda bashing
4. Approval of March 13, 2008 meeting minutes
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00018.html
5. Action items review
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/action_items.php
#0021 chairs to follow up with Mary to post the CD docs to OASIS repository
#0028 Dieter to include the statement that the pdf version is authoritative
DONE
#0029 Sanjay to provide the link to the naming guideline document on the ML
DONE
#0030 MichaelR to prepare a BPEL-14 proposal for annotating serviceName,
referenceName and intents in the source BPEL process definition
6. New Issues
NONE
7. Status of Committee Draft publication to OASIS doc repository
OASIS TC Process requirements on Specification Quality:
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process.php#specQuality
a) Latest Version URI in specifications
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00021.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00023.html
b) HTML formatted version
c) Separate schema file, Latest URI
Update from the editors
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00028.html
d) Namespace document (e.g. RDDL based)
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00029.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00030.html
8. Issue Discussion
a) Issue 14 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-14
TITLE: Allow sca-aware processes to specify everything that can be
specified in a CT side file
SUBMITTED BY: Anish Karmarkar
Latest email:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00022.html
Latest proposal is in minutes at
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00018.html
b) Issue 15 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-15
TITLE: Define Conformance Targets
SUBMITTED BY: Martin Chapman
c) Issue 18 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-18
TITLE: Need to rewrite the SCA-BPEL specifications with RFC-2119
keywords/statements
SUBMITTED BY: KHANDERAO KAND
d) Issue 16 http://osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-16
TITLE: Ambigous Service Resolution
SUBMITTED BY: Dieter Koenig
9. AOB
[15:10] scribe: Anish: None, agenda apprived
[15:10] anish: minutes:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00018.html
[15:10] scribe:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00018.html
[15:11] scribe: Anish: Any changes to the minutes? None? Minutes approved
[15:11] scribe: Danny made it to the call
[15:11] scribe: Action Item review:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/action_items.php
[15:11] scribe: #0021 chairs to follow up with Mary to post the CD docs to
OASIS repository
[15:11] scribe: Sanjay: No new updates to this AI
[15:12] scribe: #0028 Dieter to include the statement that the pdf version
is authoritative
[15:12] scribe: Anish: AI is done
[15:12] scribe: Dieter: Uploaded docs on Monday, XML Schema files per
naming convention from Sanjay, two version of the draft
[15:12] scribe: s/version/versions/
[15:13] scribe: #0029 Sanjay to provide the link to the naming guideline
document on the ML
[15:13] scribe: Anish: AI is done
[15:13] scribe: #0030 MichaelR to prepare a BPEL-14 proposal for annotating
serviceName,
[15:13] scribe: referenceName and intents in the source BPEL process
definition
[15:13] scribe: Anish: Haven't seen an email on this
[15:14] scribe: MichaelR: Notice src doc to work with is almost ready,
basing this on #01, will write next working draft as resolution to this
issue
[15:14] scribe: New Issues
[15:14] scribe: Anish, MichaelR: Haven't seen any for this week.
[15:14] scribe: Anish: 15 minute window OASIS had to shut down email
system, may have had something to do with this
[15:15] scribe: Status of Committee Draft publication to OASIS doc
repository
[15:15] scribe: OASIS TC Process requirements on Specification Quality:
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process.php#specQuality
[15:15] scribe: a) Latest Version URI in specifications
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00021.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00023.html
[15:15] scribe: Anish: Sanjay and MichaelR had suggestions as to filename
formats
[15:16] scribe: s/MichaelR/MikeEdwards/
[15:16] scribe: Anish: Sanjay suggested that this version of the URI
contained the doc level and sequence number. Mike Edwards had slightly
different ideas
[15:17] scribe: MikeEdwards: I didn't understand the need for the sequence
number
[15:17] scribe: Sanjay: THe URL itself does not have unique token that
would distinguish one version from another. If we don't have a different
filename for each new version, every new version overwrites what was there
previously
[15:18] scribe: Sanjay: OASIS policy is that an artefact that existed once
s/always be accessible
[15:19] scribe: Sanjay: Should have a permanent URI value, something that
separates each URI from URI value. Some TCs incl date of uplaod of doc to
repository. Instead of dot level, we could use date. While that would work
fine, we usually use dot level and version.
[15:19] scribe: Anish q+
[15:19] scribe: Anish: Question - this seems to assume we would change this
version URI of we go from CD02 to CD03, even if no change to the schema. I
hope that is not true.
[15:21] scribe: Sanjay: I think we should do that - reflect the CD name in
the version. Primarily we need to address where there are changes to the
schema from one version to the other. I don't see versioning when none of
the textual content has changed to be a bad thing
[15:21] scribe: MikeEdwards: If only the XSDs we're talking about, i think
it is irrelevant to tie the naming of the XSD to the CD level
[15:21] scribe: MikeEdwards: Different sequence number on the file name
doesn't tell you that a change was made, necessarily
[15:22] scribe: MikeEdwards: Date is more meaningful than some CD number. I
would suggest using the date of change as part of the filename
[15:22] scribe: Sanjay: I am ok with that
[15:22] scribe: MikeEdwards: Then the latest date reflects the last
published, rather than some random CD numbering scheme
[15:22] scribe: MartinC q+
[15:23] scribe: MartinC: I don't see the name of the file as being relevant
here. I agree with MikeEdwards that if we don't make changes we shouldn't
increment it. I would just follow the same filename as the CD itself
[15:24] scribe: Sanjay: What are you suggesting? Not happy with changing
the filename if the content hasn't changed. correct?
[15:24] scribe: MartinC: Yes. I think where we have the CD where we haven't
made a schema change as a minority case at most, non-existent at least.
[15:25] scribe: MartinC: For changing the schema, I suggest we follow the
naming scheme for the rest of the artefacts. An unique name is good enough.
Why not follow existing practice per OASIS file naming guidelines
[15:25] scribe: Anish q+
[15:26] Sanjay:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-
[DateOfPublication].xsd
[15:26] Sanjay: Can we use the above for ThisVersion URI?
[15:27] Danny van der Rijn: Issue for Liason/Steering Committee?
[15:27] scribe: Anish: There's a diff between how we would generate
filenames for schema vs. the spec. The schema would have a date in it. I
have this notion of namespace versioning, that we would not change the
namespace URI if there are no changes that break compatibility. The date in
the file has the same date as the namespace URI. If the namespace URI did
not change, since the date in the file didn't change, but the schema
changed, I think we'd need the sequence number as a unique id, but not at
the doc level.
[15:27] scribe: DannyvanderRijn q+
[15:28] scribe: DannyvanderRijn: Do we have a proposal on the table for
this, and is this a Liaison/SC issue?
[15:29] scribe: Sanjay: We have had good discussion on this. I think we can
make progress by looking at concrete proposal. I understand MikeEdwards
point. I think we could follow the convention per date of publication. I
have posed this in the chat room.
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-
[DateOfPublication].xsd
[15:30] scribe: Anish: I have a slightly different proposal [describes]. Do
we need the date of publication? Or can we use a serial/sequence number
[describes]?
[15:30] scribe: Sanjay: I think that works as well - the last token simply
needs to be some unique identifier
[15:30] anish: proposal s/[DateOfPublication]/[seq-no]/
[15:31] anish: eg:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-01.xsd
[15:31] scribe: Khanderao q+
[15:31] Mike Edwards: Compare with this, which has just one date:
[15:32] Mike Edwards:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-tx/wsat/2006/06/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-200701.xsd
[15:32] scribe: Khanderao: Why do we need date and sequence number? If we
use date as with WS-A, we have an unique id. Anyway this is not the final
schema/artefact. In interim schema, do we need sequence number?
[15:32] Mike Edwards: there is already a date in the URL itself
[15:33] Sanjay: In the tx example, '2006/06' perhaps is coming from the
namespace URI, and
[15:33] Sanjay: '200701' is the date of incompatible change
[15:33] scribe: Anish: This is for the filename of the XSD. For the same
namespace, there c/b multiple versions for that namespace schema. It is
possible we have 10 versions of the 200701. Namespace URI would NOT contain
the sequence number, but the date. This reflects the file name.
[15:33] Mike Edwards: that's right
[15:33] Sanjay: s/incompatible/compatible
[15:33] scribe: Khanderao: Do we expect multiple schema for that date?
[15:33] scribe: Anish: Looking at the filename, you would not know the date
in the namespace
[15:34] Mike Edwards: The thinking is that the 2006/06 part in the uRL is
fixed until there is an incompatible change
[15:34] scribe: Sanjay: There are two different things w.r.t. date and
month - one is of the namespace URI, the other of incompatible change
[15:36] scribe: Sanjay: Need to reconcile our use of date and month with
date of incompatible change. I believe Anish's suggestion would work. I
move to adopt that suggestion as in the chat.
[15:36] scribe: MikeEdwards: I second that proposal
[15:36] Sanjay: motion: adopt
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-
[seq-no].xsd
[15:36] Sanjay: example:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-01.xsd
[15:36] scribe: Proposal:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-
[seq-no].xsd
[15:37] scribe: Motion: Sanjay Second: MikeEdwards
[15:37] scribe: Discussion
[15:38] scribe: Najeeb: May be great idea to id schema uniquely, but it is
not user friendly
[15:38] scribe: Najeeb: Suggest not using ids in file name
[15:38] Sanjay: Just to be clear, the motion is about 'This Version URI'
[15:38] scribe: Najeeb: Should convey what they mean - semantic meaning -
date has this. Sequence number has no semantic meaning.
[15:38] scribe: Anish: Do you have an alternate suggestion?
[15:40] scribe: Najeeb: Date is sufficient
[15:40] Sanjay: For me it doesn't matter, but just to make it concrete,
example with Najeeb's suggestion would look like
[15:40] Sanjay:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-Mar2008.xsd
[15:40] scribe: Anish: We have two proposals on the table
[15:40] anish i don't have a preference between the two
[15:40] scribe: Sanjay: Example per Najeeb's suggestion:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-Mar2008.xsd
[15:41] scribe: Najeeb: I move to adopt this convention
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-
[MMMYYYY].xsd
[15:41] scribe: Sanjay: Second
[15:41] Mike Edwards: pretty ugly
[15:42] scribe: DannyvanderRijn: THis is a Liaison/SC issue, consistency is
preferred
[15:42] Sanjay: +1 to anish. We can revisit this issue if Liaison thinks
otherwise
[15:42] scribe: Anish: We can take this to the Liaison/SC
[15:42] scribe: MikeEdwards q+
[15:42] Sanjay: everything about the filename looks weird to me. we just
need to agree upon some 'ugly' format.
[15:43] scribe: MikeEdwards: THis is pretty ugly
[15:43] scribe: Anish: I am in the same boat
[15:43] scribe: Khanderao: MikeEdwards provided an example, but both dates,
but not in same way as in Najeeb's proposal. Why not consider MikeEdwards'
proposal?
[15:44] scribe: Khanderao: I am speaking against the proposal. It seems
confusing and doesn't clarify anything beyond what has already been
proposed
[15:44] Sanjay: separating the two dates by a few characters might be
slightly friendlier but still weird
[15:46] scribe: Charlton: Having two dates together doesn't convey semantic
meaning clearly
[15:46] scribe: Anish: Are there any objections to Najeeb's amendment?
[15:47] Sanjay: Khanderao's suggestion:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-tx/wsat/[YYYY of namespace URI]/[MM of
namespace URI]/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-[YYYYMM-of-publication].xsd
[15:47] scribe: Anish: Any objection to approval of this amendment?
Khanderao objects
[15:47] scribe: Anish: Put to a vote (accept amendment):
[15:47] scribe: Najeeb: Yes
[15:47] scribe: Charlton: No
[15:47] Sanjay: http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/[YYYY of
namespace URI]/[MM of namespace
URI]/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-[YYYYMM-of-publication].xsd
[15:48] scribe: MartinC: Yes
[15:48] scribe: MikeEdwards: No
[15:48] scribe: Khanderao: No
[15:48] scribe: Anish: No
[15:48] scribe: Dieter: No
[15:48] scribe: Ashok: ...
[15:48] scribe: Simon: ...
[15:48] scribe: Sanjay: Abstain
[15:48] Ashok: No
[15:49] scribe: MichaelRowley: Abstain
[15:49] scribe: Ivana: Abstain
[15:49] scribe: DannyvanderRijn: Abstain
[15:49] Sanjay: Amendment: Adopt the following format for 'This Version
URI': http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/[YYYY of namespace
URI]/[MM of namespace URI]/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-[YYYYMM-of-publication].xsd
[15:50] scribe: Ashok please speak up or unmute if you are on the telcon
[15:50] Sanjay: Example:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2007/12/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-200803.xsd
[15:50] scribe: Charlton: Does a chat room vote count? If not on the phone
[15:50] scribe: Anish: Does that count MartinC?
[15:50] scribe: MartinC: If it doesn't affect the outcome, no point
discussing it
[15:51] scribe: Anish: Amendment thus does not carry: 5 No votes to 2 Yes
votes
[15:51] scribe: Sanjay proposed new amendment
[15:51] scribe: Sanjay: Amendment: Adopt the following format for 'This
Version URI': http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/[YYYY of
namespace URI]/[MM of namespace
URI]/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-[YYYYMM-of-publication].xsd
[15:51] Mike Edwards: Wouldnt we get this:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/ns/opencsa/sca/200712/sca-core-Mar2008.xsd ??
[15:51] scribe: Anish: Can the OASIS i/f handle that?
[15:52] scribe: Sanjay: Yes (AT namespace)
[15:52] scribe: Sanjay: This creates a dir in the OASIS repository
[15:52] scribe: Sanjay: I don't see a tech issue with this
[15:53] Sanjay: Amendment: Adopt the following format for 'This Version
URI': http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/[YYYY of namespace
URI]/[MM of namespace URI]/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-[YYYYMM-of-publication].xsd
[15:53] scribe: Sanjay moves for that amendment: Amendment: Adopt the
following format for 'This Version URI':
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/[YYYY of namespace URI]/[MM of
namespace URI]/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-[YYYYMM-of-publication].xsd
[15:53] Sanjay: Example:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2007/12/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-200803.xsd
[15:53] scribe: Khanderao seconds
[15:54] scribe: DannyvanderRijn: We've spent a lot of time on this issue
and have less than 10 minutes on the call, can we move this issue along?
[15:54] scribe: Anish: No additional discussion? Any objections to
approving the amendment? Not hearing any, the amendment is approved
[15:54] scribe: Anish: Now we have an amended main motion. Any more
discussion?
[15:55] Dieter Koenig: So the two SCA-BPEL XML Schema files would then be
named
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2007/12/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200803.xsd
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2008/01/sca-bpel-extensions-1.1-schema-200803.xsd
?
[15:55] scribe: Anish: Any objection to approving this amended main motion?
None. It is approved. Sanjay can you take this to the Liaison/SC?
[15:55] scribe: Sanjay; Sure.
[15:56] scribe: Sanjay: This example would have sca-bpel relevant
characters in place of wstx-wsat:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/[YYYY of namespace URI]/[MM of
namespace URI]/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-[YYYYMM-of-publication].xsd
[15:56] Sanjay: Motion: Adopt the following format for 'This Version URI':
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/[YYYY of namespace URI]/[MM of
namespace URI]/sca-bpel-1.1-schema.xsd, Example:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2007/12/sca-bpel-1.1-schema.xsd
[15:56] scribe: Dieter: Would my examples be correct?
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2007/12/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200803.xsd
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2008/01/sca-bpel-extensions-1.1-schema-200803.xsd
[15:56] Sanjay: s/This Version/Latest Version
[15:56] scribe: Sanjay: Yes
[15:56] Michael Rowley:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/download.php/27652/sca-bpel-1.1-spec-cd-01%2Bissue14.doc
[15:57] scribe: 8. Issue Discussion
a) Issue 14 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-14
[15:57] scribe: Discussion on how OASIS mailing list is still not working
[15:58] scribe: Anish: With 4 more minutes, rather would go through rest of
pub issues. Sanjay to talk about latest URI
[15:58] scribe: Sanjay: Example:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2007/12/sca-bpel-1.1-schema.xsd
[15:58] Sanjay: Latest Version URI:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2007/12/sca-bpel-1.1-schema.xsd
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2008/01/sca-bpel-extensions-1.1-schema.xsd
[15:58] scribe: Sanjay moves to adopt this convention
[15:58] scribe: Khanderao seconds
[15:59] scribe: Anish: Discussion? Any objections? None. Motion is approved
[15:59] Danny van der Rijn: FYI I just got Michael's email so the list
seems to be working
[16:00] scribe: Anish: Three more things to run through: Dieter posted the
schema files - any comments?
[16:00] scribe: DIeter: They reflect what is in the CD
[16:00] scribe: Anish: Ivana also posted the RDDL doc - any comments?
[16:00] scribe: Ashok: Requires reference to SCA namespace
[16:00] scribe: Ashok: Where it says [TBD]
[16:00] scribe: Anish: Ivana can you make the change before the next call?
[16:01] scribe: Ivana: Yes.
[16:01] scribe: Charlton: I can take the editors AI for makeing the above
approved changes
[16:01] scribe: Anish: Will the package be ready to send to Mary after the
next call?
[16:02] scribe: Dieter: I've already placed the three versions in the zip
archive and posted it
[16:02] scribe: Anish: Ivana to post latest version with changes (RDDL doc)
[16:02] scribe: Anish: Any other business? None. Any stragglers? Have
Danny, Ivana and Najeeb. Meeting adjourned.
-Charlton.
--
Charlton Barreto
charltonb@adobe.com
+1.408.536.4496 p
+1.415.627.7156 m
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