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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra]positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]


Am in strong agreement with this distinction, as well.  I have made the
difference between "business service' and "IT service" -- keeping the
dichotomy clear.  But, I can compromise on "business service' and "SOA
service".

-Jim


On 9/24/09 1:10 AM, "Rex Brooks" indited:

> My task was to get the work rolling. I have minor quibbles with correct
> English grammar in Boris's additions, and I agree with Jeff that the
> distinction between "business service' and "SOA service" needs to be
> made. In general I think simpler is better, but as long as the grammar
> is corrected, I'd be fine with Boris's additions. I don't have any
> problems with Bob's minor rewording, but i don't see why he dropped
> Boris's additions..
> 
> I'll look at it again in the morning.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rex
> 
> Lublinsky, Boris wrote:
>> You through away all changes that were suggested after this initial one?
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:41 PM
>> To: rexb@starbourne.com
>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was:
>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
>> 
>> I'd recommend some minor rewording...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 1:16 PM
>> To: rexb@starbourne.com
>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was:
>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
>> 
>> First pass at the Section 1.2 as an additional paragraph after the first
>> paragraph. I include the first paragraph and the start of the current
>> second paragraph here for the context:
>> 
>> 1.2 Service Oriented Archtecture - An Ecosystem Perspective
>> 
>> Many systems cannot be understood by a simple decomposition into parts
>> and subsystems -- in particular when there are many interactions between
>> the parts. For example, a biological ecosystem is a self-sustaining
>> association of plants, animals, and the hysical environment in which
>> they live. Undestanding an ecosystem often requires a holistic
>> perspective rather than one focusing on the system's individual parts.
>> 
>> The SOA Ecosystem described in this document occupies the boundary
>> between Business and IT. It is neither wholly IT nor wholly Business,
>> but is of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT completely own, govern
>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of concerns must be
>> accommodated for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its purposes. Business
>> needs drive the development of services delivered through IT, providing
>> the capability that satisfies those needs. This is the business value of
>> SOA.
>> 
>>  From a holistic perspective, a SOA-based system is a network of
>> independent services, machines, the people who operate, affect, use and
>> govern those services as well as ...
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Rex
>> 
>> Rex Brooks wrote:
>>   
>>> Hi Ken, Everyone,
>>> 
>>> I believe that the email you are looking for is your reply to Frank:
>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm-ra/email/archives/
>>> 200906/msg00012.html
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This is what Frank Wrote Jun 14, 2009, at 7:12 PM:
>>> 
>>> "I sympathize with the sentiment behind this. We have consistently
>>> identified SOA as being at the boundary between business and IT. It is
>>>     
>> 
>>   
>>> neither wholly IT nor wholly business but is of both worlds.
>>> 
>>> That represents potentially one of SOA's greatest opportunities; and
>>> the source of its weaknesses: neither business nor IT can completely
>>> own/grok SOA.
>>> 
>>> Frank"
>>> 
>>> The email referenced above contains the most or all of the thread "Are
>>>     
>> 
>>   
>>> we being ignored?"
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure we would help ourselves if we say more than "The SOA
>>> Ecosystem described in this document occupies the boundary between
>>> Business and IT. It is neither wholly IT nor wholly Business, but is
>>> of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT completely own, govern and
>>> manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of concerns MUST be accommodated
>>> for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its purposes."
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Rex
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Laskey, Ken wrote:
>>>     
>>>> This is a reminder that this week we are scheduled to discuss adding
>>>> the text on the overlap of SOA and business.  Below is text suggested
>>>>       
>> 
>>   
>>>> by Michael Poulin and there is another email from Boris with a lot of
>>>>       
>> 
>>   
>>>> idea that would need to be condensed and added/substituted/combined.
>>>> Let's get the discussion far enough along that we can bring this to
>>>> (close to) closure by the end of Wednesday's call.
>>>> 
>>>> I remember there was an email where Frank wrote something very crisp
>>>> on this subject that I replied was exactly what we needed to say.
>>>> Unfortunately, I have no idea when that email thread occurred.  If
>>>> someone could find it, I think it would be a good contribution to the
>>>>       
>> 
>>   
>>>> discussion.
>>>> 
>>>> Back to Mike's suggested text, two immediate things come to mind.
>>>> 
>>>> 1. Section 1.4 is a discussion of the views and this is not a view to
>>>>       
>> 
>>   
>>>> be added as 1.4.4.  I think it fits after section 1.2, possibly as
>>>> another short section.
>>>> 
>>>> 2. It is not obvious to me what the phrase "the similarity of the
>>>> principles of the Value Networks business model" means.
>>>> 
>>>> Ken
>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ------
>>>> 
>>>> Dr. Kenneth Laskey
>>>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305              phone: 703-983-7934
>>>> 7515 Colshire Drive                                    fax:
>>>> 703-983-1379
>>>> McLean VA 22102-7508
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] Sent: Thursday,
>>>> September 10, 2009 11:31 AM
>>>> To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>> Subject: [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
>>>> business
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>> 
>>>>  I join Francis and Boris in suggestion that SOA RA's Introduction
>>>> would benefit from adding a couple of paragraphs on the business
>>>> aspects of SOA positioned across Business and IT.
>>>> 
>>>> In the previous message I composed a few words for a small section on
>>>>       
>> 
>>   
>>>> this topic and propose to discuss them as an initial draft during the
>>>>       
>> 
>>   
>>>> next (or following) Telecom. Proposed text may be found in the middle
>>>>       
>> 
>>   
>>>> of this message chain.
>>>> 
>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>> 
>>>> - Michael
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----------
>>>> 
>>>> Subject: RE: todos for PR2
>>>> 
>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org Date: 8 Sep
>>>> 2009 16:21:26 -0000
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----------
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> "positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business" is what I write
>>>>       
>> 
>>   
>>>> a lot for last few months. So, let me propose a strawman for this
>>>>       
>> text:
>>   
>>>> 1.4.4 Business Value of the Service Oriented Architecture
>>>> 
>>>> A Service Oriented Architecture realizes principles of the concept of
>>>>       
>> 
>>   
>>>> service orientation in the sphere of architecture. The architecture
>>>> in the organisation comprises both business architecture and
>>>> technical architecture of the systems [ref. to TOGAF 9.0]. While
>>>> SOA-based systems address aspects of the technical architecture, the
>>>> similarity of the principles of the Value Networks business model and
>>>>       
>> 
>>   
>>>> SOA allows us to see SOA as a conceptual bridge between corporate
>>>> Business and IT.
>>>> 
>>>> Noticed similarity opens up new possibilities for Business and IT to
>>>> construct service-oriented customer-centric convergent solutions for
>>>> business problems. Service orientation enables operational and
>>>> technical flexibility, which contributes to business efficiency the
>>>> great deal. The Service Orientation concept has the potential not
>>>> only to align IT with Business, but also to align the entire company
>>>> with the market dynamics.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> If the ideas in this writing are acceptable, I will work on the
>>>>       
>> wording.
>>   
>>>> - Michael Poulin
>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----------
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Francis McCabe <fmccabe@gmail.com> To:
>>>> "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org RA" <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:24:08 -0700
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----------
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 1. As Boris alluded to, I think that a paragraph or two in the
>>>> introduction positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business
>>>> could  be very useful. It is also pretty faithful to the RAF!
>>>> 
>>>> 2. The concept of interaction in the RM referred *everything*
>>>> involved  in interacting with services. For the RA we have to unpack
>>>> that some.  This is the foundation for the multi-leveled concept of
>>>> joint action.  This should go in Section 3.1.
>>>> 
>>>> 3. I think that Danny's security diagram should be updated and
>>>> incorporated.
>>>> 
>>>> 4. The trust and willingness stuff should go in.
>>>> 
>>>> 5. It would be good if we could go through the text bolding defined
>>>> concepts.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----------
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----------
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>>   
>>>>       
>>>     
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Rex Brooks
>> President, CEO
>> Starbourne Communications Design
>> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
>> Berkeley, CA 94702
>> Tel: 510-898-0670
>> 
>> 
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